“She Should Have Married Both!”

My daughter was staying over with me in London with a couple of friends the other night. They were talking about a TV show called “Bachelorette”. Obviously a young woman starts dating something like 15 men, and in each show somebody is eliminated and in the end she must choose between the final two. By that time of course, after dating and intimacy over a period of time, they all have strong feelings for each other.

My daughter and her friends were talking about a season finale. The girl was apparently deeply in love with both remaining men, and both men came to her to propose. She ended up dissing a man she had made love to, and confessed to being in love with. My daughter and her friends were all “Oh she should have kept Nick, he was much cuter and nicer, or she should have kept both. Yeah, she should have married both!!”

I’ve been browsing the net, and realize most people out there talking about this show seem to agree. They say, she should have kept both guys. And they say it because they saw that she was very much in love with both men, and they with her. I’ve even found women on a muslim web forum who say it!! And they do so intuitively, because of the romance and the love. Of course, they aren’t serious. But subconsciously, they recognize that it is not disgusting when a woman loves two men, is intimate with more than one man. No – it’s all in the packaging!

I know many friends of mine who have said the same about Love Actually, that Keira Knightley should have married both men. Because it’s so romantic….. It’s all in the packaging! It’s amazing really how islam manages to package polygyny as good, caring, moral and allowed while at the same time make polyandry out to be disgusting. And people buy into that, just like they buy into the newest fashion, or for that matter just like they bought into jews being untermensch during WWII.

I had a look at season 11 of The Bachelorette. It was fascinating. The thing that struck me the most is how the men there sound and act exactly like wives in polygamy. All the insecurities, the jealousy, the fighting over who is the favourite, while all the while having to force themselves to accept the situation with a smile, or else they’re out. So fascinating!! And perfect proof that everything muslim scholars try to deceive people into believing about the differences between men and women and our reactions to polygamy is an utter and blatant lie!!

Gee, I had no idea reality TV can be so enlightening!


The True State of Polygamy

imagesAs you probably know, my second husband Graham had a stroke a while back.

It has been scary, hurtful and it has opened our eyes to the value of life, just as it would have had our marriage been monogamous. But some of the issues we’ve had have been specific to polygamy.

I’ve been thinking a lot about the fact that one of my husbands could die, while I’m with the other husband. How would I feel if Graham had died from the stroke, while I had been off having a romantic night out with Mark, or making love to Mark? What would have happened if Graham had been all alone and unable to get help? What if he had been brain damaged, and the doctors had told me that if he had received help in time he would have been ok, but since he didn’t he’ll be living his life unable to communicate, eat or move…How would I live with that on my conscience?

I have realized that I can never be a half time wife to two husbands, I must be a full time wife to two husbands. There is no emergency I can decline attending to, there is no request I can turn down, there is no moment of sadness, loneliness or fear in my spouse that is not my responsibility to alleviate.

I have realized that had both my husbands had young children, I would have had to give up on polygamy. It would have been a 48 hours a day job, just to be a full time mother. No way could I have been a full time wife also. Any man who opts for polygamy with children in both his families does this knowing that he is forfeiting fatherhood and husbandhood in order to be polygamous. He chooses polygamy over his wives and children. Any spouse of such a man must be aware that this is his choice. Polygamy is more important to him than you are, than your children are.

It’s also been agonizing to see that my love for the other husband is still so painful to both my husbands. I think they’ve both lulled themselves into a calm life of make belief, where they both disregard my life with the other husband and my love for him. Like, each husband believes I have a love marriage with him, and a marriage of duty with the other. Ok, I can see how they build that scenario in their minds and hearts. But it keeps all the pain and hurt alive and raw, since all make belief  Potemkin villages are torn down and the truth comes out whenever life has me show my love openly.

You know, in one way or another, I believe the only way to survive when your spouse is polygamous is by building some kind of make belief around the whole situation. You make yourself believe you are the favourite. Or you make yourself believe that your spouse is just off to work when she/he is actually with another spouse. Or you make yourself believe this is what god wants. You make yourself believe you’ll be rewarded somehow if you can only make it through the day.

Polygamy is a matrix. It’s the Truman show.


Privacy in Polygamy

1013483_354648064665525_279483948_nSo, we decided after Graham’s stroke that he’d better stay in one of the guest rooms in the big house for a month or so. I don’t want him to be alone, especially at night, and Mark agreed.

In a way, it’s really nice to have both my husbands together. I can speak to both at the same time, we can agree on things directly instead of me always having to be the mediator, Tamsin LOVES having us all together – and Graham and Mark enjoy watching rugger together and cooking together.

But – and this is a big but -we are having big privacy issues.

Yesterday when I was in the kitchen with Mark we were laughing and joking together over some silly looking carrots when Graham came in. I felt myself blushing over the double entendre of the jokes I realized Graham must have heard. I could see that both Mark and Graham were uncomfortable too.

And the other day, Mark and Graham were watching TV and Tamsin was already asleep. When she’s around, everything is easier somehow. Now when I came into the room I found myself wondering: where do I sit? With Graham because it’s his day? Or with Mark because the white sofa is bigger? And I stood there hesitating until both of them realized what the problem was and it all turned silently awkward. And I have had to make a habit out of always going to bed early. That way I can go to the right bedroom and the husband whose night it is can join me there later. Because getting up together and leaving towards the bedroom while saying goodnight to the husband who is “off” is simply too darn hurtful.

And I can’t spontaneously hug or kiss my husbands – I always have to look over the shoulder first.

And now I’ve noticed that Graham isn’t feeling well. Well, physically he’s doing great. But this thing has made him realize that he is mortal, and he’s obsessing over dying while Tamsin still needs him.

So, I’m looking forward to next weekend when Graham is moving back to the annex.

Polygamy isn’t about being one big happy family. No way. I’t about having different, separate families. Or at least separate marriages.

Polygamy – Advice Needed Q&A

TritvamI wanted to ask some advice, as an outsider of all things polygamy.
I know someone in a polyandry relationship, with my housemate. It’s all very confusing and long but I’ll try to break it down and explain what I see (do make yourself a cup of tea before you settle down, it could be a long one).

Myself and my boyfriend (we are completely monogamous) have recently moved in with a friend, who we shall refer to as J.
J is in an open relationship with his friend, L.
L is the girlfriend to another man, P. P is aware of the sharing of his girlfriend but doesn’t like to talk about it, which I would have personally taken as an early sign of uncomfort at the situation, however L is P’s first love (he was 23 when he lost his virginity to her, ’nuff said), and L seems to be very dominating in situations. She likes to talk for everybody, talk over everybody, and literally says because she has autism she can read peoples emotions better than they can themselves, a comment that I found very distasteful and just seemed to be a blow your own trumpet kind of comment. So I think P will never say how he truly feels about the situation, probably because L has convinced him that he feels ok about it, and she’s convinced he’s ok with it because she happily put words in his mouth that suited her, all the while P has to stick it up and shut up. He obviously doesn’t want to lose her and I feel she uses this to her advantage as she knows she can get away with a polyandry relationship when it hurts her partner, but I feel like she hasn’t thought about just how much this could be damaging to him, I feel she’s only selfishly looking out for her own needs. Your blog has definitely made me understand polygamy more, even that there are some benefits to it I suppose, but I feel L is doing it to satisfy her emotional neediness and sexual greediness more than anything else, with a total disregard to anyone else. L is around J’s every other day, and literally gives him no space when she’s not, he’ll be on the phone to her for absolutely hours as soon as he gets in from work, even on his break at work he’ll spend the duration of it on the phone to her. When she can’t get through to him she messages me, the bloody housemate, to go and wake him up because she cant get through to him and he has a doctors appt, etc! The neediness is like nothing I’ve ever seen before, and yet she speaks with such confidence driven know-it-all-ism about things she knows nothing about its enough to want to smack your head against the wall (she confidently stated the other day that it was impossible for baked beans to go off, I mean really?!) I suppose it all boils down to insecurity within herself.
L maintains that J and P are the best of friends, but after living here for 6 months, although they get on very well (forced acceptance in my eyes, again, like it or lump it) the visits used to be all of them together, now it is very much P just coming over to pick up L after a few days away.
J recently struck up a relationship with a girl from work, M. He didn’t tell her about L, not at first, he got intimate with M for a few weeks and then decided to tell her. Now, normally from any outside situation looking in anyone would blame J for stringing M along without telling her straight away, but I actually feel like he didn’t do this maliciously, he’s young and confused, and what male can’t resist 2 women falling at his feet? That sounds really messed up, but if you knew J personally, you’d realise he’s just caught up in it all, he’s emotionally invested himself in 2 people because 2 people like him, without thinking of the bigger picture, I really don’t think he realises how much hurt there is to be had in a relationship like this.
As the love triangle (or square as there are so many now?) continues M and L spent time with J around the house together, and underlying problems became apparent. L feels jealous when J is cuddling up to M, and vice versa, this annoys me in itself as surely L must have a tiny bit of understanding as to how P feels about sharing her. They all agreed to come over to J’s to talk through the problems (L and P live with L’s parents, so they had to do it over ours which meant myself and my boyfriend were banished from downstairs for the night while they talked over their self made emotional black holes), which didn’t actually happen by the way, they all chickened out of talking about how they all really feel and just swept in under the rug so it can continue (imo) and ordered pizza instead. Didn’t bother telling us so we stayed in our room all night.
Last week P proposed to L, they are fiancees, and a little part of me cant help but think he’s done this out of defense, “don’t forget she’s mine” kind of thing, and maybe he feels like it’ll stop when they’re married. I wish I could talk to him about it, but we’ve only had small talk acquaintance style, and if he doesn’t like talking about it to the people who are involved he certainly won’t speak to a stranger.
A part of me wants to send him a coarse horrid message to snap him out of being submissive to such emotional drainage, “Doesn’t it bother you that your wife is fucking another man?!!”, but alas I won’t. That is definitely not my place, no matter how much I can’t understand it. I just don’t get how people cause such underlying pain (looking into partners eyes during lovemaking and imagining them being intimate with someone else) for the sake of a ‘more interesting life’. It just seems so wrong to cause burdens on emotions like that. I can see the appeal, one of my earliest fantasies was to be in a wonderfully sexual polygamous relationship with two men before I even knew what the term for it was. However, emotionally analysing it it’s just messed up.
I see L and M in competition with each other but passively which is very strange to observe, I think I’d rather have 2 people just fight it out in front of me, L is constantly cleaning the house, and will actively point out everything she’s done to J for approval, almost like a “look how better I am than M”.
I suppose I’m also a little angry at J for continuing it, as much as I can see the appeal of two women at once, L is going to get married so there is no real progression there for a meaningful relationship, and M’s a really lovely girl that shouldn’t have been dragged through this mess. Still blaming L for this though, she is definitely the dominant one in every aspect and knows what she is doing. I see J losing his patience with all sides, although I have little sympathy.

Thoughts please?
Also, thank you Fiona, this blog is amazing, I read through nearly every article. And please excuse me for saying so, but reading through your own posts just made me realise how emotionally submissive to this you were, like you had to cope, deal and accept it as being normal when there’s so much pain and awkwardness there really. But that is only my opinion, and has probably been jaded by the situation I am watching on a daily basis, I would never have found your blog if not for it so I suppose it has brought one good thing. I wish I could make L read all the posts on here!
You’re a wonder woman Fiona, even to the people who don’t understand 🙂

Why Allah Allowed Polygamy for Women

If I were to order anybody to do sudjud to another I would order husbands to prostrate before their wife, because of her immense rights over them.

If I were to order anybody to do sudjud to another I would order husbands to prostrate before their wife, because of her immense rights over them.

In the Quran, Allah limits men’s right to polygamy. It says a man can only marry plural women if he: a. is sole caretaker of several orphans b. can be 100% sure that he will never ever be unjust to one of his wives, c. can provide for all of his wives.

Women however are given free access to be polygamous in the Quran. There are no moral obligations on them, nor are they limited in how many men they are allowed to marry.

The Quran allows women to marry as many men as they like.

The only requirement is that she give herself entirely to every man she marries, so she becomes what is described as what his right hand possesses. This of course is the same requirement that is part of a christian marriage vow: “for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish”.

Women are better at communicating than men. Women have the physical ability to be intimate with as many men as they choose on any given day. Women are better at forming emotional bonds and building relationships. Women are better at staying cool and keeping their anger and frustration in check. All these are probably reasons why Allah has permitted polygamy without limits for women.

The fact that islamic tradition has chosen to falsely overlook this clear permission to women to be polygamous is only proof of religion’s patriarchal tradition. It does however have nothing to do with the permission that has been expressly granted:

And also prohibited to you are married women except those your right hands possess. This is the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are all others beyond these.  An Nisa 4:24

Who is the Head of Your Polygamous Family? Q&A

921ce-keep-calm-and-you-can-do-it-13Good day and thank you for a very interesting blog.

Being muslim, I have some questions to the blogkeeper. I do not intend disrespect and I do understand if you find my questions too private. I respect of course if you do not answer anything that may be too close.

It seems to me in polygamy, somebody must be the leader. Somebody must have the final call if there are conflicts of wishes, time or jealousy. In Islam the man is the leader. He has the final say and it is his responsibility to keep peace and harmony in the marriages. I wonder, in your marriages, is this your role? Or are your husbands still the leaders in marriage? Maybe they solve conflicts between them since you live close together?

When your husbands want things that conflict, to whom do you submit? I see you have a child with your second husband, how would you have solved it if your first husband wanted a child too, at the same time?

If two wives argue and scream and threaten each other, the husband is always strong enought to make them calm down and give in to his will. What do you do if your husbands fight?

I am sorry if this question offends, but if both your husbands have wish for intimacy, does it not make you feel tired and worn out? And how can you cope with two men if they want you at the same time? And is it not embarassing to go to your one husband with plainly traces of ghusl so he can see what you have done with the other?

I truly wish you well. But I must say I find this way of living strange. Please forgive me.


3 Most Common Complaints in Polygamy

maleslaveWe have settled into a calm life of polygamy, plain sailing most of the time. The conflicts that do arise are mostly minor and easily settled. When my first husband was still with his #2 there were LOADS of conflicts all the time, every single mole hill turned into a mountain. Not so now. That just shows how important it is that polygamy is voluntary, just and equal. And it clearly shows that women don’t cope with sharing a spouse better than men – it’s all about how polygamy is done, not about gender.

Anyway, now and then we keep stumbling over minor issues, the typical complaints of polygamy. The most common complaints being:

1. Time issues. There is no way everybody concerned in polygamous marriage will be content with the division of time. Weekends, holidays, anniversaries… the best way to cope, for us anyway, has been to set a three day schedule (it used to be four, but we changed it because of Tamsin) and stick to it no matter what. In the beginning we allowed for my husbands to choose three set dates each, so Graham e.g. chose Christmas Day, his birthday and our anniversary. (If you want, you can find an early post of mine showing how I used this system to get at my husband’s #2!) We had to give up on that too, because if something happened that forced me to give the “set date” to the other husband, like somebody being ill, it just made matters worse… “You always give up my time, and now you even gave him my set date!!”. So no, now we have a three day schedule, with 14 days holiday for each husband. And Christmas Day together. This way nobody is completely satisfied, and there are always grumblings about the schedule.

2. Intimacy. There is no way ever anybody can be completely at ease with sharing the person you love sexually with somebody else. I have to be very careful about e.g. not wanting sex, because both my husbands would see that as a sign that I might be more attracted to the other one. If I am uninterested in sex on change over day, the husband I just came home to would interpret that to say that I just had sex with the other husband before I left him (which might be true) and this always triggers hurt and jealousy. For me, this really isn’t a problem since I can always just have sex anyway, but I don’t understand how polygynous men handle it. I have also made a habit of taking a shower and changing clothes the first thing I do when I change homes. I used to get complaints about the way I smelled, Mark e.g. buys me very spicy perfumes, Escada is a favourite, while Graham prefers light scents like Happy. Ok, so I shower and change. That way, I also get rid of most of the scent I carry from the other husband. Graham only uses Clinique deo without scent, but Mark usually wears a rather heavy Gaultier perfume. Anyway, they both claim that they can smell each other on me, so I shower and change clothes. I’m also very careful about intimate hygiene. If a candida infection starts bouncing back and fro, it’s really irritating and also makes my husbands intimately aware that they are sharing body fluids so I do everything I can to avoid that. It was extremely difficult while I was pregnant I can tell you! I also avoid changing my behaviour in any way, such changes only cause jealousy, so if a husband wants something new to happen in bed – he has to initiate it himself!

3. The Wall of Silence. The silence that is caused by the fact that my husbands can share everything with me, but I have to be very careful about what I share with them. Some doors just have to be kept locked. I usually try to avoid ending up having to say “I can’t share that with you” or “I can’t tell you that”, but when I do it can cause weeks of grief. It’s a permanent conflict even when nothing really sets it off. Sometimes both Graham and Mark hide things from me, and try to hurt me by hiding things, just to sort of equal the field. And the fact remains – I am their best friend, but none of them can be mine.

Heading Towards a New Year in Polygamy

ThreeringsWe had a very nice Christmas. Graham is an excellent cook, my daughter in law to be proved to be an expert pastry chef. It was wonderful to have all my children staying, and I am still the unvanquished Scrabble champion.

Mark spent Christmas with an old friend. Graham didn’t want him to come to the Chilterns, and I needed to respect his wish since he has so little privacy in the annexe. Our house in the Chilterns is Graham’s home and mine, not Mark’s. And of course, my son didn’t want his father there either. He has told his fiancée that he’s actually still alive anyway, which is a giant leap forward.

We agreed Mark would get an extended vacation with me in June instead. I’m looking forward to it, both to go away with him and to get off the rotating schedule for a while. It can be rather tiresome to keep altering homes every three days…

I’ll be going back to London tomorrow. To Mark ❤

Problems with Boundaries in Polygamy

7c565-keep-calm-and-you-can-do-it-13I’ve resumed my schedule, which means I’ve been with Mark until yesterday.

I was intensely happy to see how Mark connected with Tamsin. It was love at first sight. And she’s been wonderfully happy in his arms, so I’ve been able to get some sleep in between snacks.. 🙂 I could tell that Mark had decided to make an effort, but that everything changed as soon as he saw Tamsin. He didn’t need to make an effort, he loves her. It’s amazing.

During my first evening with Mark, Graham stopped by once to check up on me and baby, and once to say good night to Tamsin. Mark didn’t say anything at first, but I could tell that he objected. We have always had this rule that after 18.00, my time with one husband would be respected by the other, as long as there’s no emergency. I can understand why Graham didn’t respect that rule now, and he didn’t really come to see me, he came to see his daughter.

But Mark was hurt. We talked about it when we had gone to bed, and he said that he won’t be able to cope if Graham starts interrupting our private time. He says it will be hard enough to handle the situation without having our husband-and-wife time disturbed. I can understand, and I agree – Mark’s rights must be respected. I’ll have to tell Graham this is how it must be.

But how do I tell Graham he can’t visit his daughter when he feels the need?

Q&A: Polygamy just to have Children – could it Work?

S%C3%A9pulcre_Arc-en-Barrois_111008_12Question: Hello Fiona,

I would like to tell u our story and hope u can give me advice.
Me and my husband are married 8 years now, we love eachother deeply.
He is my second husband, from my first marriage i have 2 children, 25 and 23 years old now.
I met my husband in Egypt, he is mulim and i’m not. He came to live with me in Holland so i can be with my children.
This was not something he really wanted, leave his country and family, so we agreed we will live in Holland for some years until my children got older and have a life of there own. My children understand his need to go back to Egypt and us starting a life there.
It will be hard to leave them but we will visit them often.
My husband and I different in age 21 years and from when we start our relationship i have always known his desire to have children. The fact that i wasn’t able to give him a child was and still is painfull for both of us.
We always talked about this and looked for options to make this happen.
Because he is muslim not all options are open. For him it is necessary this child is with his natural mother and father.
Surrogacy is not allowed in his religion. He needs to marry the mother of his children.
So we have been talking about he can have a second wife.
I really do want him to have children, he will never have a full life without them, i know this for sure.
He is a stable man, knows what it means and takes his responsibility’s.
I trust him in this, i know his love for me is neverending but i fear what having no child will do to him emotionally.
I also fear what having a second wife will do to me emotionally. My love for him is big enough, i’m just scared it will break my heart. With my reason, my intellect i know i can do this, my heart speaks different in this.
He will never take a second wife if we can’t do this together in full agreement.
We will choose a wife together, live together in 1 house, 1 floor for each of us.
See if we can build a relationship together as in 2 marriages and 1 friendship; (me and his second wife).
We have also talked about we divorce so he can move on and create the live he wants.
But always we come to the conclusion we can’t live without eachother, so this is no option.
I brought up the issue that it’s not just towards this second wife the only reason she is in this marriage is to have children.
His answer is that his reasons to marry will be in open from the start , he will promise his respect and that he will take care, nothing more and nothing less. If in time she can’t except this she can ask for divorce.
I was happy to read ur blog so i can relate to how it feels and what it can bring.
I have written down the pro and con. And they add up to either side.
This could mean we get more happy but will give so much pain the same time.
What is ur view? I would really appreciate ur opinion in this and want to thank u for ur openness. Best regards, Shams

Answer: Dear Shams,

First of all, I must tell you that the deal to marry #2 only to be the mother to his children, based on respect and care – isn’t going to happen. Sorry.

Once your husband starts making love to her, see her opening up to him, they share sweet little intimacies with each other, rest in each other’s arms after love-making – they will bond, they will fall in love. That’s just the way it goes. That’s why it’s called “making love” – you create love. He will fall in love with her, and he will feel guilty about it because he promised not to, and he might very well blame you for feeling guilty. That will only be one of the burdens your marriage will have to bear.

I found out some months ago that I am pregnant. I thought me and my #2 had had a strong marriage, a strong love, before, but it’s nothing compared to what I feel now when I know I am carrying his child. My first husband has been through hell, I can tell you! He says he thought he knew pain, but nothing compares to knowing that your spouse is having a baby with somebody else. Somebody they are sharing half a life with – a half that isn’t yours. This is hell on earth.

Don’t go there.

Please, let me know how things are working out for you. Maybe some other kind soul here on the blog has better advice to give!

Lots of love, / F