Polygamy Hatred

1013483_354648064665525_279483948_nI get a lot of people who come here only to condemn my lifestyle, to tell me I’m going to hell and that my poor deluded muslim husband will join me there (obviously most of these people hate the fact that Mark has accepted my being polygamous while they don’t really care about Graham). One woman wrote me a whole load of e-mails telling me I’m tempting muslim women to be disobedient against the word of god, and their husbands which seems to be the same thing, and that I have fallen into the arms of Satan. After a long exchange we realized we both live in London. So, I offered to meet her. After a while she accepted. Last night we met at a coffee bar and talked. I was a bit nervous, I must admit.

She was a woman in her mid forties, Asian, and she wore a hijab. She seemed to be just as nervous as I was. We had a very interesting talk. She started out telling me that polygyny is difficult enough without people like me tempting women to question the word of Allah. She told me I made polygyny worse on women, not better. And she told me that she was worried that my muslim husband would end up in hell because he accepts being a cuckold.

I told her, my blog is about empowering women. It’s about letting women know that there are other ways to live your life, to survive polygamy, and to interpret the word of god. My husband has actually accepted that the quran allows polyandry. We have met other muslims who have too, after reading this blog. I told her this is about more than polygamy, it’s about human rights, about the right to be loved equally.

She asked me why I hated polygyny. I asked her why she hated polyandry. She answered: because it is disgusting and horrible and immoral and makes me sick to the stomach. I said that that’s exactly why I hate polygyny. What is inherently evil to you is inherently good to me and vice versa. Maybe we must just accept that somebody not agreeing with you doesn’t automatically make them evil, or stupid. We sat staring at each other. Finally she said: Ok, yes I see. I see what you mean.

So we talked. For a long, long time. And when we parted, she said that she could actually respect me and my choices. She could see that there are actually a lot of advantages to making muslim men aware of the power of women, and the fact that women can manage polygamy too. She giggled.

47 thoughts on “Polygamy Hatred

  1. That’s an interesting story. I must say you and a number of writers in this blog are good at managing diverse people, even when in a number of cases you know well that they are conditioned to view certain things in a way that is inherently unjust, but they cannot see it that way, at least of yet.

    It’s good to maintain a level of patience and to mould your words in a way the other person can understand, but otherwise stay firm in your stance on what you feel is right and just. I am still learning this quality myself. I myself appreciate the patience and understanding from my perspective shown to me on this blog by you Fiona and other writers, which is what helped me (taking a period of time) to be where I am now.

    I still learn new things every now and then, and change some old ones. For some reason a number of dogmatic minded people see this as a lack of integrity when a person is evolving in their own way. Maybe that’s another reason why I became less social with other people nowadays.

  2. Fiona, so would you meet up with a hater like this if they emailed you? Don’t you think it might be risky? Since you are not just promoting empowerment of women and polyandry, but also criticise Islam. Or maybe women are less likely to show risky behaviors in such cases compared to men?

  3. Gee that was brave Fiona, even showing your face, I’d have been concerned for your safety after some of the threats you’ve had in the past, but you’re smart enough to take precautions.

    I agree with Miriam about the way you engage people. And I respect the woman you met for being open to dialogue. Can you tell us if she is in polygamy? My husband’s family were happy for their sons to have multiple wives but not their daughters husbands – nice double standard ๐Ÿ™‚

    If women start seeing islamic polygamy a bit differently that’s a good thing. The argument men push of ‘if you don’t accept polygamy then you’re not a good muslim’ will have less grip.

  4. ๐Ÿ™‚ As I said, we had had a lengthy email discussio so I knew she was only afraid and lashing out, she wasn’t crazy and she wasn’t really a fanatic. I knew enough about her not to feel threatened. But we met in a public space ๐Ÿ˜‰

  5. She was thinking about getting married to a man who had stated that he was open to polygyny sometime in the future. That’s one of the reasons I decided I had to meet her.

  6. Dear Sots,

    I have been away from this blog for a while and just read your few posts for the first time… I cannot help but feel and conclude you are “MARIE ” from polygamy 411. Is that true?

    Actually I very well know and remember the few times I have been there, you lashed out at me and once even accused someone else of being “Successful from polygamy 911 ” just as badly as Ana if not worse but trust me I am not asking you this due to any hard feelings or ill intentions on my part but only because I want you to be able to share your reality, your story, your problems or even criticisms with us for what they are through words straight from your heart instead of carefully calculated little bits or pieces or even half truths… So feel free to be yourself.

    I cannot be more happy for you to realise the truth behind words and conclude the real personalities of people behind anonymous identities. Also not because I consider myself any better or more authentic regarding this blog but just because I have been here for long time, I would actually like to genuinely welcome you to this blog (I know I am a bit too late).And I am sure other blog members will probably share my sentiments too. We don’t judge anyway..

    BUT IF YOU ARE NOT THE ONE I AM THINKING PLEASE IGNORE AND ACCEPT MY SINCERE APOLOGY FOR THE SAME, I MEAN TILL DATE MY REASONING AND INSTINCTS HAVE NOT WRONGED ME EVER BUT YOU NEVER KNOW, ALSO THERE’S A FIRST TIME FIR EVERYTHING.

    P.S.: I have been to polygamy 411 hardly thrice and haven’t read even more than 15 posts so I could be terribly wrong too.

  7. I just wrote this long comment but wasn’t logged in so it was lost. Here I go again. Lol. To make a very long story short. My husband and I have been together 18 years. I was open to polygyny at first. I am black/native American and because of the abundance of single moms wanted to share in this way. Out first encounter with my best friend of ten years brought out latent bisexual tendencies in me. I discovered she has been in love with me for years and I began wanting her and not my husband. We ended this soon thereafter. I had background trauma from my early years so became quite frigid. So I felt even though I now really didn’t want it I owed it to him. Over the years there were women he was attracted to and on three occasions I have him.permission to explore. The first one of his childhood friends was offended. The second my best friend said yes if she didn’t meet someone in three years. The other one also liked me but I choose not to be with women so this was out of the question. Well five years ago I stated on very clear and uncertain terms I don’t want it. I am sorry for misleading you. I was mistaken I am not built to share and I will give you a divorce so you can pursue this. He felt betrayed and was upset that i was changing the plans but All I could do is apologize and move forward. After some time I asked him not to look it up and contemplate it. We had areas of healing. After years of prayer and therapy i was healed of sexual issue, so this was no longer a factor. Well he promised not to but i would find journal entries and web searched. I would become livid and would get jealous react negatively. Long story short this is our pattern for five years since I said no to poly. Well three months ago I came to realize he was at it again but this time he liked someone at work. I told him to go for it but I would not be with him anymore. He didn’t want that so says no he won’t act on it again. This culminates with him asking a few says later that he begged God to let me let him court her. I made plans to leavr, couldn’t believe after 5 years of me saying this can’t be he would have the nerve. He begged and pleaded. I said i would try so began counseling with my priest. Things have been going better but if it comes up I react badly. I HATE that he wants another woman. I have been bettering myself. Not for him only but for our family and myself. So I feel this is a slap in the face. Am I wrong to judge him so harshly? I know I was permissive at first but for 5 years I have been very open and honest. How can he be 100% present in our marriage when his thoughts are consumed with his unfulfilled desires. He says he is a polygynist at heart living a momogamist life. I don’t like it but can I really judge that. It brings out an ugly monster in me. I am generally laid back and calm but I’m like the incredible hulk about polygyny. Sooo I LOVE this blog and have read it for years. I only posted once but really need advice. Some friends think I am crazy since he physically hasn’t cheated or acquired another wife but I still feel betrayed. Am I selfish? I want his love and desire to be only for me. I Can be attracted to others but choose not to let it go anywhere in my head. Its this crazy roller coaster. Back and firth every few months. Is this worth breaking up my family. Am I just spoiled and privileged? I am venting but am really confused. This is our main issue for years. He is a good man and loves us. He just happens to really believe in this lifestyle. Even though it’s all in his head I don’t know if I can handle this for the rest of our lives together. Part of me feels he can’t be fully in our marriage desiring another wife. Thanks for listening

  8. Hey Sabah, welcome

    I think you may have answered your own question. You can’t live polygamy. He says he can’t live monogamy. I don’t think there’s a middle ground here.

    You have changed over time and there is nothing wrong with that, it happens throughout our lives. Your husband is used to you allowing him to have other women, so either he can accept being monogamous or he can’t. It could be that the two of you just aren’t compatible anymore. I think some men can fixate on polygamy and it distracts them from everything, including their current marriage.

    I don’t think you’re being selfish. You need to be comfortable with the example you set for your children and what you need in a marriage.

  9. I agree.

    I love wine. If somebody were to tell me that a god I believe in says that it is a good deed to have as much wine as I like, all the time, I would find it easy to convince myself that I should do what god says. And if my husbands were to say that it’s not good for me, that they couldn’t stand living with me if I were drunk all the time, I would sure find a way to tell them that they are being selfish, I’m just doing what god has made permissible. And while drunk of course, I would be all the more difficult to reason with. And if my husbands really believed that god wanted me to drink wine all the time, and believed that their way to paradise was dependent on coping with my alcoholism, I’m sure they’d do their best to cope even if they cried themselves to sleep every day. And I would be on a constant high, except for the times I had to go and puke. But hey, just keep it pouring and I’ll be fine again.

    There are always reasons why people choose to stay married to an alcoholic. Personally, I believe that the only way to handle an addict is by leaving.

  10. I here and respect your thoughts but to clarify he isn’t acting on it physically. So my question/concern is should I leave my marriage, my children’s father because of thoughts. Just wanted to clarify. Its a challenge but I know he won’t physically do it. Should we part because of thought crimes so to speak. I am grateful for this space๐Ÿ˜Š

  11. I think you should sit him down and agree on what kind of life you both want. If he agrees to monogamy, that must include no more web searches on polygamy, no more contacts with women. Thoughts you can do nothing about but a web search is an act. No more “in between actions”. If you don’t mind my asking, are you muslim? Or is his wish for polygamy based in something else?

  12. As a proud African American woman I cant for the life of me understand why Black sisters degrade themselves and hook up with these god damn losers! There is something basically warped with how some brothas regard themselves and women!! There are so many women out there who work 3 or four jobs to take care of their families while the baby daddies disappear into thin air. And these same baby daddies can be found marrying other women, two three and four at a time. Why do Black women put up with that??? Why do we let them??? And I have friends who work 3 or four jobs while their men are simply hanging out with their homies…or marrying more women. Who ever managed to fool women into believing this is a lifestyle we should accept?? Hey girl, having NO man is much better than getting hooked up with such a GOD DAMN BUM LOSER!!! If you work 3 jobs and dont have a man, at least you wont have to pay for his beer and the gifts he buys for some other hoe! And every woman who accepts polygymy lets these losers believe they have a right to treat us this way. DONT DO IT!!! It’s time we Black, proud women start riding that bus, and force cheating polygymy suckers to realize they have to start acting like MEN, not rabbits. DAMN IT!

  13. So glad you spoke up Kayeela. It infuriates me that black women are doing this to themselves. I won’t get started… My other pet peeve? Women who are raising their children alone, and get called “single mothers.” Oh really? How ’bout calling them “the only parent who stepped forward and took responsibility.”

  14. No we are not Muslim. Its just a desire and a belief that it is ok. I don’t like the situation but it is NOTHING like what Kayeela said. He actually is a pretty stand up dude. World hard for us and is a good father. Although I disdain the thought of him desiring another. He only physically acted out with my permission. That is no excuse for some of his actions but he is not some dead best whoring asshole. Just a polygynist desiring jerk

  15. Thaman,
    Are you missing your brains? They’re in your ass. You might find them a little ugly and smelly having been lodged there for so long, but, well, better than nothing.

  16. I see ๐Ÿ™‚
    In that case, one option would be for you to tell him that you might consider polygamy if on equal terms. Tell him you’ve reacted so badly to the idea since you weren’t made to be alone, without a man and without sex and comfort. Tell him the moment he starts looking for another woman, you’ll start looking for another man. Tell him you’re actually warming to the idea, since the thought of falling in love and having some variation in your sex-life is exciting now when you’ve gotten used to the idea. You can tell him your children weren’t meant to be without a man in the house either. And make sure he understands that the only way you’ll accept this lifestyle of sharing is if he accepts it too. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Then see what he says.

  17. You might actually try telling him that there’s already a man you have in mind. ๐Ÿ™‚ A man who is willing to get involved in a polygamous relationship because he travels for work half the time e.g. ๐Ÿ˜‰ And that this is the reason why you’ve suddenly realized that polygamy might be an agreeable option!

  18. Dear Sabah, well his thoughts are bothering you enough to come and talk about it online, so even if he’s not acting on it, it’s an issue for you. It’s a bit like the 3rd wheel in your marriage, always there.

    At the moment web searches etc may be satisfying his desire, but it may not stay that way, habits have a way of escalating. Definitely let him know you can’t accept polygamy, don’t waiver, if he sees you relenting it will just give him hope you will allow it and you’ll have undone 5yrs of improvement. And no you’re not selfish, nobody wants to live with a person who is always looking for another.

  19. Haha Thaman, talking equality makes women look ugly to you. Now you are a real catch, the woman that marries you is a lucky lady ๐Ÿ™‚ Come back when you’ve got something intelligent to say, if not stay playing on you tube, it’s what all kids do. Adios!

  20. At one point I did as Fiona suggests and my husband was genuinely terrified I might find another man! It makes them think about it that is for sure. And you aren’t bound by religion so maybe think about it.

  21. Women aren’t made to be polygamos. Men are. Simple as that. And that is why God made it ok for men, and forbidden for women. Not much you can do about it. But stop nagging and grumbling and take care of your man the time he chooses to be with you. Might wanna be with you more if you stop sounding like a broken record about polygamy.

  22. Actually Thaman from reading this blog you’ll see there actually is alot we can do about it!

    1. Many men are terrified of losing their first wife and often will give up polygamy rather than lose her. 2. Most men are so hopeless at polygamy they manage to lose both wives and end up alone.
    3. Less and less women are agreeing to be second wives, they have other options.
    4. More and more muslims are critically thinking about polygamy and how it should be interpreted.

    So enjoy it while it lasts, polygamy is dying out ๐Ÿ™‚

  23. Thaman I will pray for you and your ignorance. I know you and your type. Pseudo conscious “brotha” . you get a little knowledge and think you have all the answers. Polygyny is for building nations in any Abrahamic religion’s. We have way to many children already in our communities. That is not our issue. With all the needs that need to be address the main one most men run to is polygyny. It is a choice. The “white” man didn’t make is monogamous. Even in ancient Israel only some were poly. Sooo why not take all that time and energy and REALLY build with one wife! I have many friends that are either nationalist , Hebrews or traditional african religion’s who are poly. That used to be my position until I saw the effects it had on those unions and especially the children. You can hate on me and say I am weak, jealous or whatever but there is something sacred between two people ride or for for each other. All Africa didn’t and doesn’t practice it. In biblical scripture it was allowed but NOWHERE ordained or commanded. At least Islam was clearer about it’s acceptance. How about love your neighbor as self. Treat others as you would have them treat you. The Yeshua/Jesus through his apostles “there is no jew or gentile, make or female in Christ. Soooo pick your flavor and stop judging. Women can physically handle poly union better. Most times when u cum we are just heating up and ready for more as you turn and fall asleep. Most of the poly families I know the wives front like it’s all good but it really isn’t. When they share in a safe space they wish they had their own husband. No woman is going to tell you that. They are mostly lying to you and themselves. This is across the board. Islam, Christian, israelite, nation of Islam , Yoruba, and Kemetics. I love that life and at one point lived and practices all of those religion’s. I am NOT some fly by night emotional chick. I am intelligent and VERY aware. So take your misogyny elsewhere and stop lurking and criticizing based off of your ignorance. I say this from love. Blessings

  24. //I know the wives front like itโ€™s all good but it really isnโ€™t. When they share in a safe space they wish they had their own husband. No woman is going to tell you that. They are mostly lying to you and themselves.//

    I think because of this type of woman, men think there is something wrong with their wife when he first becomes polygamous.

    Funnily enough, today I learned that when God ORDERS something (like prayer, for example) is it ONLY good. If something is forbidden it is Only bad. If something is allowed, so neither forbidden or ordered, like polygamy it could be good or bad.

    It goes back to what iv been saying about being a pious Muslim, which is to fulfil ones obligations (that which is ordered) and avoid the sins (that which is forbidden) it’s what Muslims should focus on. If one isn’t pious at the time of death it means the person is a sinful Muslim, so they may spend some time in hellfire.

    I’m mainly talking to the Muslims here, not to argue with anyone else’s views.

  25. Mariam,

    Thanks and same to you dear. Actually I have planned out everything regarding my professional life and currently trying to implement it.

    Now that you have already made the mistake of asking knowing fully well I love nothing more than details so here you go..

    Day after tomorrow I am again leaving my home town and shifting to Delhi where I will be working part time in one research organisation and at the same time preparing for Civil services examination 2016. This examination consists of three phases preliminary, mains and finally interview. So preliminary is in August 2016 and interview will get over in May 2017, also clearing one phase makes you eligible to appear in other, so for the whole duration I’ll be working part time and studying.

    Now you must be knowing about India’s population and as this examination is considered the toughest and the most prestigious one, about 450000 people appear and about 1000 get selected and in that too only Top 100 rankers are awarded Indian Administrative services. Also you can give many attempts so there are well experienced older players too who have already studied everything, some who cleared first or even the second phase but eventually failed and then there are those who have already joined the services but are attempting for better rank,so from childhood dream coming back into reality and hence the back up plan:

    * If I’ll clear the examination with a very good rank, I’ll join civil services.

    * If I’ll clear the examination with a bad rank, I’ll join civil services but give one more attempt as final interview ends in May, results come out in June and again you have two months to prepare for next attempt.

    * If I’ll be able to clear first phase only, I’ll start working full time and preparing for next attempt.

    * If I won’t be able to clear even first phase, I’ll work till the end of this year and then I’ll make best use of my score in GRE that’s 327/340 and come to U.S. for my masters. Also while graduation under some special program I have already spent a year in M.I.T and was Ok with lifestyle and everything, so I think I’ll be fine.

    I read about your current situation, and I know you might be anxious and stressed at times but firstly it isn’t your fault at all so please don’t be hard on yourself, you are doing a wonderful job as a sister and hence scoring A+ in that field and then getting to spend time with your parents and at home is not less than any achievement. I came to my home town and got to spend just very few days before I need to leave again, celebrated my last HOLI festival six years back with my family and DIWALI eight years back, hence I know and completely understand.
    Just stay positive and make most of present times, I believe we can all have everything just not at the same time.

  26. Thaman,

    Keeping in mind talking about equality makes a woman look ugly, is it safe to assume a woman looks most attractive and utmost beautiful when she is lying on your bed completely vulnerable, on her scheduled nights might I add? Since apparently for men like you having sex with your wife is a cheap commodity…

  27. Successful,

    It’s great you have already planned your next steps for your future after graduation ๐Ÿ™‚ Your degree is in Psychology right? And did you study in India for it? And you spent a year in MIT? ๐Ÿ˜ฎ That’s awesome! And great abroad experience you gained from one of the BEST universities in the world. You have something fine to include in your C.V. I wish you the best of luck for your future ๐Ÿ™‚

    By the way thanks for your encouragement to me ๐Ÿ™‚ It means a lot to me. Its true I get anxious and stressed at times. But also when I see my family, in a number of ways they have been breaking down and needed support. Currently I am trying to do that too along with managing my health.

  28. Fiona,

    The woman you met, is she genuinely alright with polygyny and sharing her husband? Does she really thinks she can enjoy her marriage not knowing how long she is the only wife? Or she just loves this man and wants to marry him, hence trying to make peace with it? or else just doing one of the biggest mistakes a woman can ever do that’s marrying a man thinking her love and devotion might change him?

    Also Fiona, I am finding few posts of yours completely blank like the one you posted under “polygamy is not a threesome on June 1 2016, at 4:50 a.m”. So I don’t understand what’s the case and is it just me?

  29. Taman:
    “God made….forbidden for women”

    Prove it. Quote the Qur’an, and show me where it says it’s forbidden for women. You can’t. So put your dick back in your pants.

  30. Hello

    I couldn’t believe what I read here and on the other blog.

    My husband served in the Gulf, my brothers too, my father served in Vietnam, my grandad died in the Bulge. The people who serve this nation make me so proud to be American. Now this man brings shame to every man and woman in the US, and dishonors the uniform he wears. It brings tears to my eyes.

  31. Mariam,

    I have actually done my graduation in software engineering from South India. And have also completed a six years professional course in Music which is equal to graduation in that field. Regarding psychology, I was actually assisting a student of Psychology who was doing Phd from my University just out of curiosity and in an attempt to learn something more, though it is now included and making a difference in my C.V. too.

    Trust me dear when I say I completely understand your situation, you are already handling everything just fine, take care of your health and family though I see you are really doing a wonderful job as it is and in your situation I would have done the exact same thing. My fondest best wishes in everything you do dear…

  32. Successful,

    That’s some interesting qualifications you hold ๐Ÿ™‚ I thought you were studying Psychology seeing the way you explain and break down matters, and I think once you mentioned something related to it. Okay you did pursue some education/experience in psychology studies as well.

    Thank you for your wishes ๐Ÿ™‚ I wish you the best in your future endeavours as well. I am sure you will shine wherever you go ๐Ÿ™‚

  33. Successful, many Congratulations! what an impressive CV you have. Good luck to you and Mariam! i love how we all despite of our age, cultural and many differences get along well and share our life experiences and views with each other. This blog is much more than a polygamy blog. Fiona. thanks for creating such a welcoming web space for us.

  34. Laila, much thanks dear!

    Mariam, Yeah I must have mentioned psychology because I came across this blog in an attempt to extract some information related to one of its projects.

    Fiona, well You already know I can never thank you enough for anything and everything that I learnt, and continuing to learn.

  35. Laila and Successful, I agree with you regarding this blog. Fiona, I too am glad for having this blog space for us which is welcoming towards us ๐Ÿ™‚ I too have learned so much being here, and continue to learn.

  36. //i love how we all despite of our age, cultural and many differences get along well and share our life experiences and views with each other.//

    This blog has been one of my earliest experiences, online or real life, to have met people of such diversity in age, culture and others, and yet get along well and share our life experiences and views with each other, that too often at a level of intimacy which I don’t come across often ๐Ÿ™‚

  37. This blog has been and continues to be a life saver. That’s not necessarily a metaphor, either. In one way or another, I believe our past experiences, and having a venue like this one to talk about them, has in one way or another spared the same from other women…and after reading here, a few men have decided against inflicting it upon them.

    A few may call us haters. I prefer to call us truth-tellers with no agenda, no bullshit, no rose colored glasses, no boundaries.

    It’s good to be us โค

  38. She wouldn’t go into details about the intended marriage. I just felt that she was trying very hard to be ok with something that deep down was abhorrent to her. It makes me so sad and so angry the way a religion can make slaves out of women.

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