Q&A Can’t You See That Polyandry Can Make Victims Out of Men?

Red_Spider_Icon_Larger_by_RedSpider2008Hello Fiona

I have read just about every post on this blog – it’s addictive!

I am an American male, I grew up in the bible-belt and had really hard-core old fashioned parents. I was told the word of God can never be questioned and I was taught to obey the hard way. The church we belonged to was really more of a cult, but it took me some time to realize. Breaking up from that world meant I had to leave everything, my family, friends everything. I decided to leave for good and came to the UK. I got a job doing constructions at Lampeter, settled down, built a new life for myself. After a couple of years I met a woman. She was wonderwoman to me, everything I had ever wished for. She was strong, beautiful, smart, funny, she soon became everything for me.

She belonged to a religious order, a kind of Druid order. Most of it is about meditation, I’ve come to love this beautiful religion of peace and harmony. It’s so right in every way, it’s about self respect and respecting others and this wonderful world of ours. So I joined too, in 2011, the same year we married.

Since then, she’s become a priestess. Among other things, this means she has a responsibility to be polyandrous. Through her, her husbands can reunite with the earth godess. I understand this, and I can see the beauty of it. But she’s my wife, and the thought of sharing her is killing me.

She is being very considerate. She says she’ll wait til I say I’m ready. And she isn’t pushing it. But I know she’s waiting because of me, and I’m keeping her from fulfilling her duty and I’m keeping some man, or men, from uniting with her.

I just don’t know how to make myself tell her to go ahead, marry another man. I don’t know how to do it.

You write a lot about islamic polygyny turning women into victims. Well polyandry can make victims out of men. Did you ever thin about that?

And what am I to do? Can you please give me some advice?

45 thoughts on “Q&A Can’t You See That Polyandry Can Make Victims Out of Men?

  1. Anytime you have more then one mate at a time you break a bond & the other person becomes the victim .Your first problem was falling in love with someone who is involved with witchcraft. What do they say? “do what you desire but do no harm?” Yeah right…..You need to let her go because you eventually will be swimming in that polluted pond & you will either end up resenting her or going out on her yourself……Nature worship is witchcraft…..worship the creator not the creation.

  2. God created man & woman = the first family= marriage. Man through the centuries has corrupted this holy bond with polygamy & has destroyed what god originally intended.And on top of that …man has FALSELY said that god created polygamy……..deception lies…..double standards are all from man NOT GOD

  3. Here is another issue……what if your wife gets pregnant by one of her “extra husbands”? Yeah we need dna tests for the whore because she has sex with several men…..tell me that is from God & i’ll go puke.

  4. “tell me that is from God & i’ll go puke”

    Tell me your scathing and judgmental comments are from God, and I just may do the same.

    Seriously, I don’t see what good it does to tell someone who obviously doesn’t share your beliefs (wherever those seem to come from) that they are misguided. Of course everyone believes as they do because they believe it’s correct guidance.

    The man was asking a fair question in a respectful way. He deserves a thoughtful and polite response, don’t you think? It shouldn’t matter whether he believes in witchcraft or married a witch,there is no reason to treat him with less dignity just because he believes differently. Clearly, pain from sharing a spouse and jealousy issues are something all of us can relate to and experience, and shouldn’t be castigated for sharing.

  5. As a Christian, I would like to apologize on behalf of opulasereth. Something is wrong with him/her.
    As for your issue, seeing as your wife is willing to ‘wait until you are ready’, then tnhats great. You are not ready, and never will be.

  6. Hi Friends,
    I’ve been reading a lot about cults lately, and in the process found this book very helpful,
    _Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships._ The author is Janja Lalich, The 2nd half of the book I just flipped through, but the 1st half, has helped me start making some real changes. Plus, there is included a first rate bibliography.

    Hope everyone here is well!

  7. Greetings OP

    I can only give limites advice since our situations differ so much. But I can tell you that right now is the only time you can make a decision. Will you stay or leave? I know so so many people who have been told their spouse would be polygamus. And they, like I did, thought the pain would kill them but also thought “I can try and see if Allah swt will make it easier if I try for a little time to cope. I can leave if it does not get easier” BUT THIS IS A LIE TO SELF! As Fiona has said many times, polygamy makes us into crack-whores (I had to look that up but now I know and it is correct) Once you have decide to give it a chance you have injected yourself and you will become used to it and start the never ending fight for your spouses love and attention and favorite and time. So your really only time to say no and leave is now.

    So my advice is do not ask how to say yes. Ask how to say no.

  8. Hello First Wife

    It was I who wrote the original question, thank for taking time to answer.

    I don’t really understand what you mean. I’ve seen posts where Fiona writes about polygamy turning women into crack whores but I don’t really understand. How? And why? Isn’t it possible to find yourself settling in to polygamy and finding it a good lifestyle? Couldn’t it be a good idea to see if I can overcome initial fears and jealousy instead of just up and leave? Please, help me understand. (I fear jealousy most of all, and feeling inadequate)

  9. Hello David,
    I’ve been reluctant to respond to you directly, because I wasn’t sure that you weren’t trolling the blog. It doesn’t matter, you write in a civil style, and are posing a legitimate question.

    I used to just skip over the term “crack-whore” because it was so ugly, and I didn’t know what it meant. Then one day I thought about how elevated I felt by his intimacy, and his appreciative words, and how humiliated I felt by the not-knowing, and by his control. I saw myself then as someone who would do anything, no matter how debased, to have his sweet touch in my life. This perception had not been included in the picture I previously had created about myself. And I reflected on the fact that I was participating in this absurd situation willingly. This is what those words mean to me, Fiona would have to say what they mean to her.

    Vera, you don’t ever have to apologize for something someone else says or does. We have both been readers of this blog long enough to know that Opulasereth says extreme things, and then goes back to being normal. Fundamentalists, of all religions, come across to me as angry people. Angry mainly, that the rest of the world doesn’t do what they want. Or maybe they’re angry because as a group they lack education and are p*ssed off at being trapped in a prison of belief. Who knows. But if Christ is a real and true phenomenon, fundamentalists are just as far away it from as your average atheist.

  10. I do my best to avoid the trolls – there are plenty of them I can tell you! I trash that kind of thing every day. This one sounded legit though. Hi David! I’m busy right now, but I’ll try to get back to you tomorrow. Dale – great post as usual!

  11. Since when does being a Druid High Priestess come with a requisite (responsibility) of polyamory???? I’ve been a pagan since 1997 and with celtic leanings, and this is the first I’m learning of this. Unless this is a small offshoot order that I’m not aware of…I would double-check this and make sure you’re not being played, David.

    The Great Rite, if carried out literally, means a sexual union between the HP and HPS of a coven, yes. Most times the HP and HPS of a coven who actually participate in the literal Great Rite are a married or otherwise committed couple though. If not, it’s usually done symbolically with the athame and chalice as representative of the Goddess/God sexual union.

    I mean, if girlfriend wants to be polyamorous, fine and dandy, but she shouldn’t wrap it in a cloak of religion and call it something she’s responsible to take part in. That smacks of the FLDS Church. Actually the whole notion that you, as her husband, can reunite with the Earth Goddess through your wife sounds a little too much like the FLDS with a gender twist.

    Pagans don’t as a rule follow any doctrine of “you must” this and “must not” that. Nor do they specify for anyone, male or female, what path to take to reach Deity. This is all ringing really weird to me. I have a very good friend who is much more knowledgeable on some of the lesser traveled paths of Druidry, so I’ll have to ask him, but this is sending me some major red flags. It’s just not how we are.

    Opulasereth, I really want to let your comments slide for now, because I have no tolerance for entertaining INtolerance, especially at the present time.

    But I practice witchcraft, have done so for almost two decades, and I’ve had it up to my eyeballs with condemnations when I haven’t done an effing thing to these hate-spewers to deserve it. I just went 3 different kinds of go-round with a group of Christian fundies who took it upon themselves to picket outside my favorite metaphysical bookstore last Saturday, complete with a bullhorn and an agenda that had nothing to do with their supposed mission (to convert us evil sinnahs to Jayyyyyzus). They didn’t get arrested, unfortunately, but it was close.

  12. //Fundamentalists, of all religions, come across to me as angry people. Angry mainly, that the rest of the world doesn’t do what they want. Or maybe they’re angry because as a group they lack education and are p*ssed off at being trapped in a prison of belief. Who knows. But if Christ is a real and true phenomenon, fundamentalists are just as far away it from as your average atheist.//

    Thanks Dale for your comment on this. Both the points on their angry behaviour ring true. Also such as in Muslim societies the government laws can include Shariah laws which may violate human rights, for which these people feel they are stuck with and can’t do anything about. Sometimes they themselves are not aware of the roots from which their anger is sprouting from, and may blame it on people or culture (which may partly have something to do with it, but not all).

    And Unchained, I usually enjoy reading your stories and comments. Do keep it going πŸ™‚

  13. This blog is interesting although sometimes deeply disturbing.

    To the OP I will say that for a woman polygamy is natural. She needs love and protection and maintenance, and she can get this from half a husband or a fourth of a husband. If this was not true women would have said no to polygamy as is their right and polygamy would not exist. Polygamy exists because it is good and natural for women. But is is very unnatural and banned for a woman to have plural husbands. It is not natural for a man to submit to polyandry and share a wife. It is completely against his nature since he must be jealous and protective of his wife and also make sure that the off spring is his. It is banned and unnatural for a woman to have many husbands. If polyandry was meant, it would exist but men would never submit to sharing wives. Never. Polygyny makes a woman grow but polyandry diminishes a man. And this is the law of nature and the law of God.

  14. Hello Issah,

    When you started like this:

    “To the OP I will say that for a woman polygamy is natural. She needs love and protection and maintenance”

    I thought you were in favour of polyandry and I was normally continuing to read. But then it became like this:

    “and she can get this from half a husband or a fourth of a husband.”

    Hahaha πŸ˜› And then saw the rest of the post is the usual nonsense we readers came across from commenters numerous times. Regarding this part:

    “If this was not true women would have said no to polygamy as is their right and polygamy would not exist.”

    Brainwashing and ever-present patriarchy in several forms for thousands of years contributed to women keeping more silent about it. Put that into religion and it becomes harder to tackle. And women speaking out has been quieted down further through misogynous approach towards them such as suppressing feminism which is on favour of the more natural woman. Women I have been observing have been fortunately waking up more to this recently all over the world, but it would still take time and further enlightening before such brainwashing and patriarchy is finally overthrown from the society.

  15. “If this was not true women would have said no to polygamy..”

    Issa – really? Rethink this. Women all throught Islamic history have said no to polygamy, and were told by Islamic scholars they had to accept it since God allowed it for men. Polygamy actually makes most women suffer, not grow. This means either God wants women to suffer, while men enoy. Or God’s word was twisted by men who wanted women to suffer so that they could enjoy.

    Ask any child, boy or girl, of women in polygamy whether they thought their mothers “grew” – or suffered. The answer is clear.

  16. Dear David,

    In order to understand your situation better: Are you expected to be faithful to your partner? In the practice of your sect, will your partner sleep with every man that wants to connect to the earth goddess, or choose select few who can do that? What happens with the other men in the community? Will they not be able to connect to the earth goddess? If not, why is that? Why would only chosen few get awarded that privilege? What is the result for the spiritual well-being of the “unlucky” men not wed to a priestess?

    I do not find the idea of a woman sleeping with several men any more repulsive than the idea of a man sleeping with several wives. If, say, a Christian who believes in monogamy and sexuality exclusively within marriage, finds such behaviour repulsive, that’s coherent, and I understand the logic even though I do not consider it natural or a must at all. But no Muslim or no person thinking a relationship can allow for some “stepping outside” of a partner has the right to call your sect’s practice abhorrent or unnatural. There is no difference at all between Islam saying it is a man’s right to take several wives, for his pleasure and increased offspring, and your cult’s teaching a priestess should not be limited to one husband.

    As with any religion – Islam or a heathen cult – justice within the relationship is crucial to assess the practice’s fairness. You are, it seems, not equal in rights to your wife, the priestess. This seems to have to do with her role as priestess. I guess it will depend on you if this explanation is good enough for you. Do you believe she is different through her role from the rest of the community? Does her apparent privilege to be promiscuous come with actual responsibility, or would it primarily be a pleasure reward for her to have several partners while her partners are limited to her? Do you *believe* there is benefit to sharing her for you and the potential co-husbands, from a religious point of view?

    I would personally be wary of every religious doctrine that says one person in the community can live by one set of rules, and another group in the same community can live by a different set of rules. I would personally not feel justly treated in most situations I can imagine. I must say in your situation, it is different from Islamic polygyny. You as a man in our patriarchal society are privileged. Should you make the choice, you do not make it from a subordinate position that awards you few choices anyway. It will be by your actual choosing. Just be wary, as an individual, in your unique relationship with your wife, you can of course stand on unequal footing. One partner often loves more (unconditionally). One partner often sacrifices more for the other than vice versa. That partner is vulnerable to personal exploitation, even if as the man in the relationship, you hold more social power. Personal power can still be constrained. Also the socially more powerful can be emotionally abused in a personal relationship.

    I wish you all the best.

  17. “I would personally be wary of every religious doctrine that says one person in the community can live by one set of rules, and another group in the same community can live by a different set of rules.” – Well said!

  18. ” Polygyny makes a woman grow”

    Take, for example, that potato I was propagating the other day. I cut out the eyes, put them in the ground, and they grew. Just like a woman. You’re so wise Issah.

  19. @ Maryam β€œTo the OP I will say that for a woman polygamy is natural. She needs love and protection and maintenance and she can get this from half a husband or a fourth of a husband.”

    We discussed this on another post. If man is the protector of woman – and if woman needs a protector – a husband who is there half, a third, a fourth of the time, she is not well-protected. Good luck finding the rapist who respects the schedule!

  20. @ Dale I share your observation on most fundamentalists being angry people. Across faith boundaries, fundamentalists seem to take a particular fascination with apocalyptic scenarios. They often angrily voice how their God punishes us with the hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, and how the end of days would be near. They conveniently ignore that once a natural disaster may hit alleged gay paradise New Orleans or prostitution hotbeds in Thai tourist regions, another time your average – quite conservative – Turkish, Iranian, or Nepalese town. No gays or sex workers out in the streets in most of the latter locations. Also, there seems to be a tendency to throw regular fits regarding the decay of this civilization contrasted to an allegedly better, more religiously practicing and “clean” past. European Christians often reference just a couple of decades back, when almost everybody went to Sunday mass, whereas now churches are empty. Iranians today tend to glorify the day when in the 70s, mosques might have been half empty, but people who attended actually prayed, whereas nowadays upon pressure of the Basiji (“morality” enforcement thugs) mosques are full, but most visitors stare holes into the air instead of engaging in prayer. For these diverse civilizations, different as they may seem, the fundamentalists seem to enrage themselves with how decayed today’s society is instead of quietly praying for improvement.

    At the extreme end of the spectrum, there are the angry fundamentalists that seem to think their deity so weak or so notoriously absent that small humans need to step in and commit violence against transgressing other small humans. Fundamentalists keeping abortion doctors from performing abortions by murdering them – when they believe in a deity that parted the sea to have its way on earth, and when they believe in a God that cheats death when he pleases. Or other fundamentalists murdering people for what they draw, say, or allegedly do (like, allegedly insult a prophet or allegedly burn a copy of a holy book).

    So, yes, so much anger in word and action. I must say for me fundamentalists are about anger most of the time. Indeed anger about how the world does not follow their interpretation. Anger how everything keeps going further South. Anger about how the end of times must be near (which I understand even less than the other anger – if the end is near, why not strike a cross or whisper some subhanAllah or inshaAllahs, and pray for the best?).

    Very little passion and enlightenment for their faith comes from the average fundamentalist. Even little trust in how the deity will sort things out, it being omnipotent and omniscient and all. Interestingly, it seems mostly the “moderate” practitioners sometimes glow with a trust in their deity, which makes their faith kind of understandable and appealing even for the outsider.

  21. Salaam

    I found your blog through another blog called 411. I was stupid and turned there for advice and support. My husband died and I ended up in a real ugly mess over inheritance with his other woman who turns out was not married to him as it seems although he calimed I must respect her as his polygamus wife. In Sweden polygamy is not legal. Anyway I told my story at the other blog but the woman who runs it turns out to be malicious and a vicious liar as well as stupid as a goat. I have told her over and over what happened but as soon as it enters Anas little mind she can’t cope with understanding but twists everything. It is making me so sad because I badly needed advice and support. My local masjid are now saying I am supporting zina because I am paying to the woman and her sons according to sharia. But I am afraid I will be in the wrong if I don’t I am more afraid of Allah’s judgement then the council but my husband died and I can’t grieve because all this is panic for me. And this Ana person now has me screaming in panic because she is making such vicious allegations – and she speaks of my husband only as the other woman’s husband has died. She forgets it is my husband died.
    I am sorry for crashing in here with my worrys, but I found other posts here making me see you have also had argument with this Ana

    I would be grateful for any kind of advice from kind people.

  22. Dear Edith,

    putting myself into your shoes (whilst not sharing the underlying values):
    Under Islamic law, the other woman has rights in your husband’s belongings only if he was her husband too. I am guessing when you say he claimed he was married to her, but wasn’t there is no marriage contract she can produce. To my knowledge, no promise to marriage or engagement ceremony triggers the rights to inheritance, only the lawful marriage does.

    If she has not produced a marriage certificate to claim her share of the inheritance, there very probably is none whatsoever.

    What are you afraid of to be punished for? Islam is relatively clear in the obligations within the family. No marriage, no legal obligation for you towards her to share the inheritance. Now we could talk about moral obligations. But quite frankly, if your husband fathered this woman’s children without even being married to her, she is an adulteress and he was an adulterer, islamically.

    Why do you feel this burden upon yourself when they committed a grave sin, towards God and towards you as his wife, under Islamic morals? If you feel a personal connection for this woman and her children, by all means give away your money towards them as charity. But why feel burdened or pressured? You are the victim here from what you tell. Better lay back and defer decisions on what to do with your rightful property after a mourning period. You were your husband’s legal wife, you were cheated, you inherited his property. Clear your head after a mourning period and see what you trully want to do with your property!

  23. Hi Edith,

    and btw, I hope this is really Edith…I wouldn’t put it past some of those women to come here pretending to be someone who didn’t march in lockstep with Ana and her crew…but what the hell. What I’d say to Edith I’d say to anyone else….

    Anyway, Edith, I followed your story from the beginning at 411. I don’t post there, I’m banned now, but I used to. I’m one of the ones who she wails about that “violated her privacy” by posting links to her real identity. Actually, Robin, also known as Ana, outted herself, but that’s besides the point. Anyway, I followed along reading at 411 because your story interested me, and because I knew Robin/Ana was going to explode on you. Trust me, honey, you’re not the first to receive harsh treatment from that thick-headed lunatic. She’s essentially why this blog exists – she treated Fiona much the same way a couple of years ago.

    In your situation, I’m laughing a little bit at Ana/Robin’s hypocrisy. See, there was a 411 blog that existed before the one you are on now. And on that blog, Ana/Robin was quite vocal about her own polygamous marriage. And whenever she has made mention of anything to do with finances, when it comes to her co-wife, Carolinah (yes, she has a co-wife, a woman she loathes and will have nothing to do with), she’s absolutely made clear that Carolinah will never benefit from her. She lords the fact that she’s legally married to John while Carolinah is not, thus Ana/Robin will gain financially upon John’s death. Carolinah will not, and Robin made it more than clear on the old blog she’s not willing to share a dime with that “gap-legged ho”. Robin/Ana is a loathsome hypocrite. You’re well shut of that blog and those women there, Edith.

    Anyway, I’m glad you’re here πŸ™‚ Welcome!

    I’m a little torn about your situation. I realize you’re a Muslim and I’m not, so we’re approaching the issue from a couple of different directions. Yours is maintaining that your late husband and this other woman were never married, and if the two boys are your husband’s sons or not. My focus is on her children. Assuming they are your late husband’s kids, I personally feel they deserve a good share of the inheritance. A piece of paper doesn’t mean a thing to me in this regard, nor a verbal, religious ceremony. It matters not a bit. In that regard, I side with Ana/Robin. I feel those kids deserve benefits. If they were in the United States, they would receive Social Security benefits as they were under 18 when their father died – the government couldn’t care less if they were born in or out of wedlock – as long as the DNA proves the deceased person is their parent.

    Now – as far as girlfriend. Nothing. Not a dime, not a dollar, not a cent. She put you through eleven kinds of hell during the 14 years of their “marriage”. I can relate to this, as my ex co-wife put me through very similar. I’d spit on her as soon as look at her even today. I want nothing further to do with that bitch, or the lousy excuse of a man we both found ourselves married to. But anyways…..

    I was getting frustrated myself when I was reading along over there. The way I see it, if it wasn’t for Ana/Robin lighting the powder keg, you MIGHT have gotten some decent Islamic advice over there. As it all too often happens at 411, you got some tepid, tentative responses from the other bloggers, and then Ana/Robin stomped in and blew the situation completely up. Her loyal sheep then piled on, and you felt like you were being ganged up on with a mountain of vitriol. That’s because that is exactly what happened.

    Not being a Muslim, I don’t give two hoots about what this scholar, that imam, this ayat, that hadith, or anything else has to say on the matter. What I do care about is fairness; your husband had a responsibility to make sure your co-wife and his sons with her were taken care of. He didn’t, and you’re dealing with insult on top of injury in that the burden is falling on you. That’s bullshit. Again, I’d do something like opening up a trust for the boys (once it is determined that they are in fact your husband’s kids), so they are taken care of. I would never let them go homeless or starve, I’d make sure their needs were met, but as far as the co? She can take a flying leap. You owe her nothing. Nada. Not a single thing.

  24. Hello Edith,
    Welcome to the 411 Reject Club. There are some Muslim contributors here who can listen in a knowledgeable way, and maybe help. But everyone here, regardless of their conviction about religion, knows at some level what you are going through.

  25. Thank you for welcome.

    I never understood why Ana deliberately chose to twist and misinterpret what I said. It was like talking to a wall. I wrote one last comment there saying that I see she has chosen to lie about me willingly and I ask that Allah will forgive her. She has chosen not to publish that comment but she has published many others so she must have suppressed it by choice. Well it is her right. But she has no right to twist what I say into malicious lies.

    The boys have a right to benefits in Sweden too, I have checked and they would be getting around 800 dollars each every month + living subsidy that depends on their housingcosts, all paid to the mother since they are minors + the 150 dollar childsupport each that all children in Sweden get even if their parents are both alive.

    I did give them their share of my husband’s estate. But my daughters first had what was theirs according to the law here. And I had receipts that he had borrowed money from me that was solely mine and not part of what we own together and I claimed that back before I shared the rest according to sharia. But now the council are saying that wa a sin because I encourage zina. I said to them that they first said I should pay but they said that what came to light should make me reclaim. But even if I did do they really believe that woman would pay back money? I wish I could just move on, but now I feel I can’t go to the masjid because they think I am promoting sin/zina. 😦

  26. Edith

    Welcome. First of all, you mustn’t be surprised by Ana’s treatment of you. Don’t take it personally. She is a badly damaged woman who is managing being forced to live polygamy by her army-officer husband by trying to manipulate other women into sharing her pain, living her pain. She is the typical victim of abuse turning into the abuser. I’m sorry you happened to cross her path while looking for help and support. As you can see from her comments, she isn’t even muslim. She doesn’t believe in hadith, she doesn’t believe in sunnah, she doesn’t believe in fiqh – she only believes in her own pathetic interpretations of the quran – she obviously regards herself as the last Prophet.
    To me it sounds like your best plan would be to keep calm and move on. Hold your head high – you did what you could to do right by everybody. If the people at the masjid try to blame you for anything, just tell them you acted on their initial advice and now things are in the hands of Allah.

    Your story should help everybody understand why muslims in the West must abide by the law of the land.

    Stay strong – and give yourself a chance to relax and grieve.

  27. Hello again

    Now she is writing that my problem is that I can not accept that the woman was married to my husband and had his children. How stupid is that woman? I have told over and over again that I shared what was left of my husband’s estate after all debts were paid and my daughters had claimed their legal share with this woman and her children and according to sharia distribution. I have told Ana this over and over but she is too thick to get it in her head and instead she lies about me and causes me pain. If I had said the woman is not a wife, would I have shared? NO! But I did share. And it is now the council who say that she was not a wife, not I. But I don’t want to reclaim the money but the council is pressuring me to do so. Why is Ana lying? Or is she simply too stupid to understand?

    I don’t care about the money. She could have it. But I don’t have the money my daughters got even if I wanted to share it 😦

    My big worry now is the future. I don’t want to spend eternity with a husband who seems to ahev lied to me, and this woman who lies and spreads so many vicious things about us. I know feelings are different i Jannah, but I don’t want to.
    But I don’t want to marry again. Ever. Maybe it will feel better when some time has passed?

  28. Hi Again Edith,

    Yeah, I saw her latest post about you. She’s really striking new levels of low with her hypocritical statements. All I can think of is how she spoke about whether or not her husband actually had a Nikah with Carolinah, that she never saw proof of a wedding taking place, etc, and this was I don’t know how many years into polygamy she was saying this.

    Then too all the crap she’s saying about how bad you are for not sharing the inheritance when you’ve made more than clear that you did. Just apparently not enough, according to dear Robin. Well, I can guarantee you gave this woman a lot more than Robin will ever allow Carolinah to have should something happen to John.

    As far as the whole zina, council, masjid stuff, I can’t help you there, except the whole lot of them ought to mind their own business and let you carry on with what you should be doing, which is grieving your loss properly and moving on.

    I have zero desire to marry again, and I don’t expect that to change anytime in the future. I’m very content as a single mother. Again, you’re Muslim and I’m not, so we look at things differently, including what happens upon death (I’m not a believer in Jannah, or Jahannam either for that matter) but I suggest you get busy living the life you have now. The future will take care of itself without you worrying your life away πŸ™‚

  29. Lily, another woman with brains has tripped and fallen into the peat bog that is Polygamy 411. She’s talking about what she believes, not her own personal pain, so she can pretty much just walk out.

  30. Edith, I was following your story at 411. You were living polygamy and your husband died when he was at your home. If i remember your story correctly then i think you didn’t inform you wife of your husbands death until after the burial. Why didn’t you inform your cowife in timely manner.

  31. Hi Dale,

    Yeah I saw Lily’s post. Was reading along, was thinking, wow, now here’s a sensible lady. She doesn’t bash polygamy; she merely says hey, if it’s too much for you, then leave. Get a divorce! There’s nothing saying you’re forced to live this way! This is a sentiment that Robin herself at one time or another has agreed with and has advised as well.
    I think Lily’s comment struck a chord in Robin as what she said pertains to Robin’s own situation quite well from what Robin has said. I think it made Robin ask herself some questions about her own marriage maybe, and she had to silence that voice of reason inside her so she shut Lily down in her tracks. She also didn’t want Lily’s comments sparking off a conversation among her followers that might go further in exploring the notion that women are not chattel; they actually DO have choices.

  32. My husband died very unexpectadly. He had not been ill or anything. I was in complete shock. Devastated. And I had to arrange everything within 24 h for funeral and everything. I was in I can not explain but numbed shock and pain and could not breathe and had help from a doctor and my daughters helped me with arranging everything. And in all this I had to decide how to do with his other. And just the thought of seeing her there made me want to die. She has been evil to me ever since the beginning. I can’t even tell you everything she has done. I had the feeling my husband may have told her things about me to make her think he did not love me as much. She gloated about that and wrote things he was supposed to have said about me on the internet, and she started spreading immoral rumours about my daughters when they were still little girls, she destroyed my holidays, birthdays, she has been a pain and sorrow in my life and some mornings I was so afraid what I would face next I almost didn’t want to get up. So trying to cope with my husband’s death and funeral was almost more than I could manage – having her there would have been impossible. Then I could not have gone, nor any of our family. So, I waited until after the funeral and then told her while the grave was still open so she could go there with her sons.

  33. Yes, I pretty much agree Unchained. That was a lengthy and cerebral response to Lily, instead of her usual boorish attacks. And the sheer number of responses and length of responses to Edith are telling as well.

    And Edith, “just the thought of seeing her there made me want to die” I hear you. I feel that part of the problem with polygamy is the reduction of the mind to these primitive destructive emotions, and endless mental machinations. I know you feel that she’s been evil to you, but bear in mind, the evil is in the institutional prerogative.

  34. Hello again!

    So are you keeping another blog too? Is that one also about polygamy?

  35. Nope, it’s by Ana, aka Robin (her real name), who keeps that blog (polygamy411). I suggest you stay far far away from commenting on that blog. Unless you are simply curious. There are some psychologically damaged women regularly commenting there, along with perhaps a couple of a little more reasoned ones.

  36. Edith,

    I know a lot of people have come down really hard on you for not informing this woman about your husband’s death; but really, given the history, what else could you have done? There is no way I’d want to taint the paying of respects to my husband with the appearance of a vicious, hateful woman like my ex-co was, so you won’t get any judgment from me.
    Yes, I suppose the proper thing to do would have been to swallow all that and inform her immediately so you both could attend; but real life and real emotions don’t always work that idealistic way. It could have turned very ugly right there at the funeral. You were in a terrible state, and the pain was very raw, since he’d just died and you had no time to begin to process it, given that Islamic law demands an immediate funeral. I imagine this woman would have been in much the same state as you. With the bad feelings already in place between you and going back that many years, that could have been an explosive situation.
    I don’t honestly know what I’d have done if I’d been in your shoes. I’m glad I never had to face anything like that and make that decision. Knowing me, I would have probably asked myself – if this man had died on her time rather than mine, would she have informed me right away?

  37. Hi Edith,

    I’m just wondering why you are still hurting yourself? Your husband chose to be polygamous. You already endured years living in pain because of his choice and now even after his death you put the burden on you. It would have been his obligation to take care of his other wife – especially in this situation where there’s no law in Sweden recognizing such a marriage – and he knew that and she knew it as well. He could easily have left a will or something like this but seems like he didn’t and she also didn’t think of it. But this is not your problem.

    I understood from your posts that you already gave her some money I would not waste my time in trying to get it back. I think this would just lead to more trouble and hatred at a time where you need peace in your life.

    Well I also do not belive in Jannah as I think we all should behave decently without expectation of rewards or punishment after our dead. But to help you stop worrying about it maybe a quote from the Dalai Lama helps: “If a problem is fixable, if a situation is such that you can do something about it, then there is no need to worry. If it’s not fixable, then there is no help in worrying. There is no benefit in worrying whatsoever.”

    If I where you I would simply close this chapter in my life and move on. Maybe after all those years it’s time to put your own well-being first. In my opinion you should already have done this years ago and left this painful situation. But it’s now or never so enjoy life again πŸ˜‰

  38. David, like Unchained, I have never heard of any Druidic variant religion that requires any form of multiple marriages (male or female). If your wife is talking about it, I would find out more about the particular variant she practices. Maybe start with talking to some of her circle members and doing research in the library / on the internet.

    The first thing you should do, though, is make it clear that you are very uncomfortable with her marrying another man and that you may never be comfortable with it. She needs to know definitely where you stand so she doesn’t keep asking about it or expecting some epiphany to suddenly change your mind. Maybe you will change your mind. But if you have doubts and discomfort now, keeping silent about them will not help you.

    Edith, you should really find someone outside your current group (local) that you can talk to about your issues. Talking here may help you some, but sometimes a person needs that shoulder to lean on. In fact, I suggest finding a grief counselor who is familiar with Islam but is not personally invested in what is happening with your family and your faux-co. You can’t think clearly right now, especially when being accosted on the internet by the people at 411.

    Find someone who can help you with the grieving process first, then worry about the other woman and your local council. You and your daughters come first. Remember that. Give yourself permission to heal from your husband’s death. Give yourself permission to refuse other people’s attempts to widen your wounds. You and your daughters deserve better than that.

  39. The most difficult night was not my husband’s wedding night.
    The most difficult night was the night before.
    When he was with me, but he was marrying another woman the next day.
    When he made love to me saying I should never forget how much he loves me, but he was going to make love to another woman the next day, opening his heart for her to enter.
    When he was sleeping beside me and I was watching his face thinking that tomorrow night another woman will be lying beside him with his semen inside her and new love for him awakening in her heart when she watches his face while he sleeps.

    That was the really bad night.

    On his wedding night, at least I could scream my pain.

  40. Oh my god. That one hit me right between the eyes. Yes. Involuntary polygamy is hell on earth.

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