Ana and the Other Murderers

By: D S Pruitt

By: D S Pruitt

A revert muslim, Ana, has stated repeatedly that she considers child marriages islamic. She says a child is ready to marry as soon as she has her menses, if she is 5, 6 or seven years old doesn’t matter. According to Ana, marrying a child is islamic if she only has had her menses and having sexual intercourse with her is islamic as soon as the nikah has been performed.

Ana hence approves of 50, 60 and 70 year old men marrying little children, girls aged 5 or 6 and she claims it is islamic for these men to have sex with their brides:

That a child is not ready to have children even if she has her menses at age 6 doesn’t matter to Ana. That a child might not be able to understand what marriage means, that a child might not want to marry an 80 year old man, that a 7 year old might not dare oppose her parents’ wish to marry her off to an old sheik is of no importance to Ana.

That children die from giving birth, that children die from internal bleeding after having been raped by their “husbands” is of no importance to Ana. An 80 year old man marrying a 5 year old girl and having sex with her is islamic according to Ana.

This means Ana is condoning murder. It is her, and people like her, who make sure the traditions allowing child marriages survive. It is religious fanatics like her who make sure it is impossible to change the laws that allow child marriages.

It is Ana, and people like her, who murder children like this 8 year old girl who died after her wedding night, from internal injuries after having been defiled by her +40 year old husband. Every person who defends the right of old men to marry children is a murderer, and bears the responsibility of these girls’ deaths.

This little girl could have been saved by a law preventing child marriages, but as you can see such a law was prevented by conservative muslims who claim that  a law to that effect would be unislamic.

The blood of this child is on them. Her death is on them. On them and on everybody who claims that god wants men to marry baby girls and have sex with them.

31 thoughts on “Ana and the Other Murderers

  1. This is not islam. This is cultural tradition but not islam. In islam it says no woman can be forced to marry against her will.

  2. If Ana believes everything happens because Allah wants it – why does Allah want an eight year old child to be raped to death by her “husband”? No, we all have choices and are responsible for the choices we make. Polygynists and pedophiles too! This child’s murderer will be punished I hope and I hope everbody who says it is right to marry children will be punished the same.

  3. I didn’t see where Ana said how old the husband is or should be? Or where a child should be married against their will in general?

    Speaking personally, I became sexually arousable at about age 10. I didn’t get my mense until age 13. I didn’t lose my virginity until age 17, but from about age 11 until then I did all kinds of sexual acts with boyfriends. I would’ve loved to be married back then, if that meant being able to have more sex with a horny teenage boy around my same age. I am not say I had a mature view of marital commitment at that time, but I wanted the outlet for physical release for sure. I am not saying that marrying young is or should be for everyone, but I think there are a handful of exceptional cases similar to what mine was that it would benefit a young, horny couple to marry instead of keeping them separate and putting them both at risk of getting std’s or pregnant out of wedlock because they are bent toward promiscuity. And I definitely believe that marriage (at any age) should be between two individuals who want each other, not arranged with strangers or forced with someone with whom there is no compatibility at all.

  4. Ana has specified men are allowed to marry children, she has put no limit to the age of the men whatsoever! No age limit at all! She stated a child who has had her menses is old enough to marry and have children and old enough to consent to marriage. That is why I mentioned how heinous it is to claim that a child of 5,6 or 8 could consent to marriage. A child of 5 CAN NOT consent to marriage. And it can never be presumed a child of 5,6 or 7 can either consent or refuse marriage. This is why all civilized nations forbid child marriage. All civilized people do too. Ana and her pack and people as warped as they do not. It is sick and frightening and it is killing girls, children not much more than babies.
    Maybe there are children who can get aroused when they are 10. That is why they should have parents looking after them – not 50 year old men having sex with them!
    Two horny teenagers falling in love and consequently being allowed to marry is one thing. A little baby girl being married off to a grown man who performs marital rape on her is something else.
    And Amy, you don’t believe marriage should be between two individuals who want each other do you? You want marriage to be between a man and up to four women who might hate and loathe each other! Women, between whom there may be no compatibility at all. And you want men to have the right to marry these four women without the consent, or even the knowledge, of the prior wife/wives. And you want this right for men only, denying women equal rights whatever their needs might be. Or have I misunderstood you?

  5. I don’t believe that someone neglecting to specify an age means they automatically promote something in particular- as you are expressing in that she is saying children (sic) should be married to post-middle aged men. I have my own disagreements with Ana et al, but that’s mostly because I know that Ana is coming from a “Quran only” view which is not accepted by most Muslims and is often seen as a deviant sect that teaches biddah and falsehood.

    Fiona, when you started saying that I personally “want marriage to be etc etc etc”, I’m not sure where you are getting these ideas? I have never said anything on any website that promotes those views.

    For tt the record, my personal view and my understanding of Islam is that one man and
    one woman who are truly compatible and having care for one another should marry and remain married in monogamy. I do not agree with arranged marriages and forced marriages are completely haraam in my view. I believe that every individual should freely select their marital partner, without undue influence or coercion from their community or family.

    I believe men *can* marry up to four wives in the technical sense, but I don’t believe that means they should. As far as polygamy is concerned, no additional wives should be taken by the husband unless it’s what the original couple BOTH want. Meaning that no, of course men should never ever take a second wife without the first knowing or being in FULL agreement with it. If he is considering the idea, and his wife says she doesn’t want that, a proper Muslim husband will leave it all right there and not try to cajole or get her to change her mind. A husband who doesn’t respect his wife in that manner is psychologically or emotionally abusive in my opinion, and should be divorced.

    And no, I don’t believe in women having the right to marry men. If it’s been forbidden by the religion, that’s what I accept. I don’t think it’s any more “unfair” than pork being forbidden, but chicken and beef being permissable. I suppose those who want pork or a second husband might find that stricture especially challenging, but since I personally never did or foresee myself wanting two spouses of my own I honestly don’t think about that particular feature too much. In my opinion, if Islam were being practiced properly then the vast majority of all marriages would be monogamous anyway, so that the issue of women having an “equal right” to a second husband would really end up being a moot point. I tend to believe that probably near 99% of polygamous marriages in Islam today are being practiced incorrectly and should be dissolved.

  6. I am sorry Amy, I thought you were the same “Amy” who has been answering questions at the islamic web forum. I do apologize. I am glad you are of the opinion that no man has a legal or religious right to marry a second wife without the express and full consent of his first,making any such marriage null and void.
    Ana’s rant about young girls came after a question whether she would accept her husband taking on a third wife aged 6. We know that girls as young as five have given birth so when Ana states any girl who has had her first menses is old enough to marry, she is very clear. Even if they were ten, they would still be children. Or 11. So I don’t understand the hyphens. And Ana stated explicitly that she considers it islamic if a man of +50 marries a 6 year old. To me, a 6 year old is a child.

    I understand what you say about religion forbidding polyandry. I just disagree. I could never agree with any ideology that claims one race has rights over another race, or one gender has rights over another gender. I oppose cutting off limbs, wife beatings, slavery and floggings too by the way.

  7. I am not sure what web forum you mean, if you mean “IslamicAnswers.com” then yes, I am the same Amy. Many times we get posts where situations are already created- where polygamy is already underway, and I am obligated to share the technical fiqh aspects. But I also give my personal opinion when I can, which generally reflects what I outlined above. I don’t think any of my comments there would show otherwise.

    I don’t believe Islam teaches racial superiority. There are hadith that says no one is better than another, that every human is as equal as teeth on a comb. That’s what I believe. I also don’t believe that Islam teaches domestic violence, as I believe was touched on in a previous post about wife beatings. Slavery is not even a factor in todays world, and any Muslim who condones it nowadays I would consider an extremist and misguided. However I do believe in floggings. If someone is doing something to harm another like committing adultery or hurting their wives (beating them), flogging seems appropriate. And I’ve heard some say that worse things than limbs should be cut off if they are being misused as well lol.

    The thing is, if the only information or picture of Islam is the one being supplied by deviant or extreme sects, then the picture you get is going to be much different than the one understood and proposed by more moderate groups. As a historian, Fiona, you already know that there can be countless ways a picture is painted, depending on who you are getting the information from. Surely you know that one account of an event is going to look quite different when you talk to a conspiracy theorist, than when you talk to someone who is more objective. I wonder if you have ever challenged yourself to look for Muslims who are depicting an Islam that would be much more tolerable and if respectable? And would you be willing to post their views as a contrast to the ones you’ve shared thus far? Needless to say, sharing only one view (and an extremist and widely rejected view within Islam at that) ends up being nothing more than propagandizing, which would mean the one promoting it has an agenda of some sort.

  8. Just one more note on the issue of a child being marriageable at age 6: I think a main issue here is that when any daughter is married (even if they are a full blown adult), her parents have to be supportive of it according to Islam (and they have to be reasonable, not selfish, as far as that’s concerned). So I don’t know what loving parent would even consider marrying their child off at age 6, regardless of anything else. Parents are the ones given by God to look out for the best interests and welfare of their children at all ages, so a parent who would find a rationalization to marry their 6 year old off at that age just because they are mensing should have their sanity questioned. After all, we all know that a child who menses that young isn’t normal- they are suffering from a medical condition called precocious puberty which needs to be managed appropriately…not taken advantage of. Most loving parents I know would have reservations about marrying off an 18 year old to a 30 year old, and that is understandable. So to me parents that are marrying their children at younger ages to men who are older or even already married to another wife, they are doing it for selfish or maladaptive reasons. And that isn’t Islam, either.

  9. Ah, ok thank you for clarifying. Then you don’t mean a second marriage is null and void without the first wife’s consent, and you don’t mean a first wife’s consent is a religious and legal requirement for a man to marry a second. I was right in the first place. You do believe a man has a legal and religious right to marry a second wife without the consent and knowledge if his first wife, you just consider it bad manners. Fine, then we’re clear on that.

    No, I don’t believe islam teaches racial superiority either, I believe it teaches male superiority. Same shit. And always covered in the same euphemisms of protection and good will. I don’t believe islam teaches domestic violence. I believe it allows it. I believe it condones it. I believe it gives the option for a man to strike his wife. Slavery is still a factor. Just look at Malaysians in Saudi. Slavery is just as allowed in the quran as polygyny. Why do you claim people who agree with the one are good muslims while those who agree with the other are fanatics? I am really asking, I am not trying to be sardonic even if I can see it comes out that way.

    Of course I would be willing to share posts from anybody who comes here with a different view on polygamy or women in islam – I would welcome it!

    Just as I welcome you and your posts, even if we far from agree! 🙂

  10. I hear you – thank you for clarifying. I wish the sheiks on youtube and islamqa and so on would agree with you!

  11. Well there is a legal workaround for polygamy being forbidden, if the first wife puts in the marriage contract that she doesn’t agree to it. Once the husband signs that marital contract with that clause, then it’s legally binding shariah-wise. So in those cases, yes, the wife is then released from her marriage if the husband violates that and takes another wife anyway.

    In the absence of that, then yes it can only amount to bad manners. However, Islam places a premium on having good adab (manners) in every situation so for someone to have bad manners is not taken lightly either. And I do believe that legally, if a man practices bad manners by taking another wife in secret, the first wife still has the right to divorce because of it. Not all scholars teach that, but enough of them do that I find it to be a valid course which I have advised others to before. But unless she takes that right, you’re correct that just doing so will not automatically invalidate the first marriage (in the same sense that a lady converting to Islam and still being married to a non-Muslim would, for example).

    I personally don’t believe that Saudi is practicing pure Islam. They are a kingdom, for crying out loud, a monarchy! There is no such thing in Islam. Islamic government should be structured under a caliphate, nothing else. They are wrong in so many ways, and the Malaysian slavery is just one more example.

  12. I totally don’t like the islamqa website. It’s strictly a salafi driven vehicle. And I think that’s the answer to what you asked me above, trying to sift out who is extremist and who isnt, one really has to study the different sunni sects – ahl al sunnah wa jammat, madhabi, salafi, wahhabi, sufi, etc etc (I’m not even including the shia here because they only represent 10% of the whole anyway). One has to study their individual origins and idealogies to get an understanding of what they are truly promoting, and that takes time and dedication most don’t have (at least I haven’t). As a muslim I’ve learned enough to get the main gists, and from what I can tell the majority of visible muslims who are making outrageous fatwas and restrictions come from a salafi/wahabi background. Now, granted, not every lay person who identifies themselves as Salafi may share every view of these shaykhs, but those salafi in a visible position of authority are more of a threat to Islam and a hindrance to its reasonable practice. They are certainly not representing it as it was originally given at the time of the Prophet SAWS.

  13. Amy, she has said that once a girl is able to menstruate, she is able to marry. This could be girls who get it at age 15 or girls who get it as young as 5. Of course she won’t say a marriage should occur against their will but how can a child give consent? Hers is a twisted understanding of the Quran which has been shaped by a man who initially wanted her to be his second wife – and whom, if she truly believes in Islam, she should not be in such intimate contact as it is.
    To be blunt, marrying for lust is a stupid idea. Just because you have urges and desires does not mean they should be acted on. I have the desire to be wealthy but I’m not going to commit crime to get it. It has more meaning when it is something you earn by working for it. The same goes for relationships. There should not be a marriage simply because you want to get some action. That is what these stupid men are doing with their so-called second wives! It backfires on them and they are adults making adult decisions

  14. I have put a lot of time into understanding the teachings of different schools of thought within the muslim community. I believe I am starting to get a grip. However I must say, I don’t see the huge difference the same way as you do. To me, the difference between islamqa and saying a man has a legal and religious right to marry three more wives without the knowledge or consent of his first wife is, to be honest, wafer thin. To say that a woman only has a right to divorce her husband on grounds of polygyny if she has it clearly stated in her wedding contract is offensive to me. And I know many women in poor cultures who have no option to demand such a clause in their contracts… And even with such a clause, the second marriage would still be lawful!!! It would just mean the first wife has a right to ask for khul. Oh, and the man would be guilty of showing bad manners…

    I can tell you, if polygynous men came home to find their first wives married to a second husband – they would start thinking about polygamy in a different way! Ask my husband.. And of course, in islam slave women are allowed to have plural husbands. So polyandry is not forbidden. There is only a condition. Just like men in islam are only allowed plural wives if they are custodians of orphans. If islam can be hypocritical about one condition, why not about the other? Why dispose of the condition for men, but not for women? I believe we both know the answer to that one!

  15. In my view, for any shaykh to give a fatwa or opinion it has to be based on some hadith or ayat or something established from the beginning of Islam. For a shaykh to say that a man can marry another wife secretly or without permission has NO hadith to base that on. They in fact are basing it on the absence of a support, saying that if it wasn’t explicitly forbidden that makes it permissable. And while that notion is a rule of thumb that can be used in a lot of situations, it’s meant to be used toward what will be the greater good and ease, not the opposite.

    So in a gray matter like that, a truly qualified and humble shaykh (and I am of the opinion that many salafi shaykhs are neither, but that’s a separate topic lol), would look at it like “ok, there’s nothing that says specifically whether a man has to tell or get permission from his first wife before marrying a second, so out of the spirit of care and respect he SHOULD do so (get permission or whatever)”. But as we both see and know that’s not what is happening, and though the shaykhs have the power to turn that around they don’t because more than likely they are making rulings based on their nafs and not the spirit of the law as they should.

    And just to clarify, there’s a difference (legally) between a wife having a right to divorce and a marriage automatically becoming invalid because of an event that occured. A woman (in my understanding) always has a right to divorce, no matter what. Yes, it’s in the form of khula or kashf, but it’s supposed to be her right just the same. Just because many cultures have made the khula process into something monsterous doesn’t mean it should be that way. Unfortunately a lot of what we see in the practice of Islam, particularly in countries which claim to be following sharia, are really just culturally influence bondages. And that’s something that many are trying to reform but it’s a very difficult process because many people who don’t know more than what they’ve been raised into are reluctant to do it differently.

  16. Amy,
    Thank you for taking this conversation seriously. You appear to be drawing a distinction between religion and culture. What you say is probably true, in the abstract. Perfect example; “A woman (in my understanding) always has a right to divorce, no matter what.” So what? What difference does it make? A person is realistically limited by their culture. Are you reading what some of the female contributors on this blog are saying about their actual lives? Or are you focusing on a set of inspirational ideas?

    You can talk all you want about what rights “should” be, Islamic, democratic, or pagan, but it is all an intellectual exercise. The vast majority of “cultures” influenced by, as you would have it, an “impure” understanding of Islam, promulgate thorougly inhumane practices.

    And those people who talk about the pure and correct understandng of Islam are in fact the most oprressive. Here, you are stating that the Salafis, and their ilk, do not have the correct understandiing of Islam? That is exactly what they would say about you. So we have here a battle of the purists, while real people have real problems.

  17. You’re exactly right. And yes, I see a lot of how the cultural constraints bind people into limited options that fall way short of the “ideal” in my work on IslamicAnswers.com. Paritcularly in Pakistani culture, there are huge barriers that leave women in crappy marriages almost no options.

    And that’s why I think it’s important to always bring it back to how it should be, because if women who are in those situations do have a way to get out or bring things into the correct balance, then knowing that what they are going through isn’t the way it has to be can help. We can’t just sit back and say, well culture is doing this to people even if it’s wrong, because a lot of individuals in these cultures don’t even know it’s wrong- they are being actively taught it’s right.

    So my intention is to share what’s correct whenever there’s an opportunity, not because it actually happens but because it can inspire people to better their situation. It may not happen with everyone, but it can happen with some.

    And I’m sure that the sect arguments are pointless, but at least I can say for whatever I believe pure islam should be, it doesn’t include many of these horrible practices and customs. So even if someone can disagree or accuse me of being wrong, at least my position isn’t one of oppressing others.

  18. Problem is, when one group of people is given power over another group of people – there is never correct balance.

    In islam, women have rights but men have all the power. The dysfunctional societies you talk about operate from a culture that has grown out of islam. It’s a hen and egg situation. Blaming the culture shows, to me, a superficial understanding of the interdependence of religion and culture.

    People are survivors, and most of our basic traits are drawn from this fact. We are greedy because a surplus gives better chances of survival, we are sexual because we want to procreate and survive, we are hungry for power because it enhances our possibilities to satisfy needs like greed and libido.

    Islam neglects this. Oh sure, there is a lot of talk about islam being the pragmatic religion that understands men’s libido, women’s weekness during menses, people’s needs.
    But women only have utopian rights. Men have the power. And in islam this power is given to them by god, so nobody can question it. Islam grants women rights, sure, but islam gives all the power over women to men. And given the basic nature of man, they use it to their own benefit. And this is the basic and most heinous flaw in islam. It only works if all men are perfect. If they aren’t it gives men the power to build a world of evil.

    So don’t blame culture. No culture is born in a vacuum.

  19. Assalamu Alaikum

    Sister Amy,

    I much appreciate your try to explain and show the beauty of islam.
    I am 28 year old and have two daughters and a son. My husband two years ago married a second wife La hawla wala quwata illa billah. It was terrible for me and his family were very angry because I not like and they say I am bad example to daughters to not be obedient and like what Allah likes. So my husband decide my daughters must stay with his second wife half the week to learn ways of proper muslim woman. I must learn never say no to husband wishes. This is worst kind punishment and my heart is break when I see how husband teach girls I am bad woman. I never disobey again. A while husband marry third wife. Enna lillah wa enna elaihe Rajioun. Now second is angry and tells daughters is because I am too bad wife husband need more than two. I say nothing. I now have two days every week with husband and five day without. I can not leave home because is dangerous for woman without husband. My daughters is four days with me my son is now in school. I am alone many time. I can not visit family because I can not travel alone and husband say I not go because he wants to have me when he please. He always say I must learn obey and be better. When I am sad he strike me on my legs and behind and say I must please him. I can not ask for khula my husband has does nothing against sharia and I could not live and lose my children I am already lose so much of them and if I lose all my life is over and nobody will marry divorce old woman. I am not strong as Fiona and my life is pain and I can not leave Astaghfiru lillah. Is the rules keep me here the rules that allow husband power over me and children. Is the truth. Is not culture is rules of sharia and power of husband.
    There can be not good life for woman in a world where we only get rights our husband want to give us.

    Amy and Fiona Jazaka Allahu Khairan

  20. Where is polyandry forbidden in Islam? The general rule is that if the Quran doesn’t address an issue, it’s permissible. Since the Quran restricts men to four, under very specific circumstances, but says nothing about how many husbands a woman might have, the general rule is that women may have unlimited numbers of husbands.

  21. An Nisa 4:24 “Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess”

    So if I give myself as a slave to my second husband he can marry me even though I am married already! Which means of course that islam allows polyandry just as much as it allows polygyny. Polygyny is specifically only allowed for men who are custodians of several orphans and harbour a fear of dealing unjustly with the property of these orphans. The difference is that the interpretations of the quran have been in the power of men.

  22. this is for the retard amy to answer.. how would you answer to things like this?… pls next time think carefully before give ur out-of -the-world opinions. definately Islam is a terror religion contains many twisting facts and agendas of life hidden under the expired texts,,, pls now answer to this women my dear retard amy.. u see wat happen when follow and practise Islam?..

  23. I’d beg you to refrain from calling other contributors here retards. Apart from that, welcome da doctor!

  24. My answer would be that what this husband has done is one of the worst accounts that I’ve read, not only because he got married without taking his first wife’s feelings into account, but he has usurped her rights by taking HER children away and putting them in the care of his second wife. This is totally, totally wrong, because in Islam no woman has rights over a child except its biological mother. A father cannot take her children (even if he fathered them) and entrust them into the care of anyone else like that. It’s beyond saddening. It’s clear this woman is being abused physically, emotionally and verbally.

    This is not Islam. I know there are plenty of folks who think that because “Muslims” do these things, and justify them based on what they have been mistaught, that it means this is what the religion of Islam came to teach. Islam would never force a woman to stay in such a marriage and there are hadith to illustrate this, so even though some places in the world are saying that he’s done nothing against shariah and their understanding of shariah perpetrates this, I disagree and will continue to speak against such things. I understand that some places in the world (probably where this sister lives) have made it almost impossible for women to escape such situations, but that in no way makes it right. It isn’t right and it never will be right.

  25. It’s so obvious to me that you don’t have anywhere else to source out information regarding polygamy except to go and sneak around polygamy 411. Everyone is open to state their point of view. It’s a free country. I think ure the moron that belong in a cave. You can’t accept / digest other peoples point of view. You keep coming up with real shallow topics such as rape…. Or sexual activities. Are u horny? ….. Besides if you have such a big issue about child marriages, go out and DO something about it rather than rant and rave on your blog with your pathetic followers whom I believe don’t do their reading but blindly follow of all people…. YOU. How about teenagers getting pregnant? … Don’t you think that’s rape? Your non-Muslim society has gone mad with all their stupid ideas. Young mothers who are in their forties now have to take care of bastard grandchildren. U call that accepted? I call young girls like that as a pain in the butt. Before even being independent they get themselves involved sexually / freely with anyone they have their hormones raging on and then when the bun is out of the oven, they dump it on their mothers! What is that all about? you may not agree to polygamy, I accept that. But no need for you to use my personal messages and brand me. Are you GOD? Do u even know me personally? …. Do I owe you anything. You remind me of the stupid whihte women who think they’re so intelligent with their fancy new era ideas. Indent even want to bother reading stuff from ur blog. It’s not mentally stimulating. I’m not encouraged to be a better woman. May Allah or ur gods whatever it may be, bless you and your family.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s