What I Look for in a Man

polygamy-femaleI stumbled across a blog post called “What I look for in a woman”. Made me think.

The writer had found a post on the same topic he thought was very shallow, I suppose it was focused on beauty and sexiness. So this writer instead wanted to focus on what was important to him, which obviously is religion. He wanted a woman who was a practising muslim and who would hence regard him as her head and godgiven leader. (A woman must submit to her husband and the writer found it disgusting that some women actually think for themselves when choosing a husband, which the writer calls giving in to shaytan.) The problem is, he also wanted her to be intelligent. But then he defined intelligent as being able to discuss islam with him, so fine, maybe that’s doable.

Anyway, his list – that said the woman must be intelligent, pious, regard him as her superior, beautiful (although he’d rather she was a niqabi or at least a hijabi since he wants to own her beauty and stamp her as awrah) and preferably able to cook made me stop and think: What do I look for in a man?

1. He must be confidant and secure in himself. I want a man who would consider it a compliment if a gay bartender flirted with him. Someone who is manly enough to be proud of that – not threatened by it. A man who would be secure in treating a woman as a god given equal.

2. He must be intelligent. Intelligent enough to know that the person who should lead in a relationship or in a family is the one with the best ideas and the strongest conviction – and this can alter with the situation. A man who instinctively understands that leadership is a question of qualities, not of gender or race.

3. He must have a great sense of humour. He must have the ability to laugh at himself.

4. He must be a liberal who believes in democracy, individual freedom, absolute equality and basic human rights for all. If he happens to be religious too, well fine I don’t mind. As long as he can laugh at Life of Brian, Dave Allen and the Danish drawings of Muhammad.

5. He must see it as a natural thing that cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, tending crying babies at night, staying at home with the children, doing the laundry et.c. are chores husband and wife take turns doing. He would be willing to be a stay at home dad to allow his wife to have a career.

6. I must find him attractive. He must also be an attentive lover who takes great pleasure in pleasing his woman.

7. If I am smarter than him, have a better job and career than him, earn more than him, am beautiful in the eyes of other men – he must be able to take pride in this – not feel threatened or diminished by it.

So – if you’re all that – fancy becoming #3?? 😉


39 thoughts on “What I Look for in a Man

  1. It’s great how you read my list and completely twist everything I wrote. No where did I say, she has to be a niqabi or hijabi. I clearly stated, if she isn’t it is fine with me. No where did I say, she has to cook. I wrote, if she did that is great and if she doesn’t, that is fine with me, we can learn to cook together cause I can cook and eat myself. No where did I say, I wanted to be treated like a God because I don’t want to be God. I clearly stated, in the Quran, Allah says men has rights over their wives and the wife has rights over her husband and thus Allah states it is about equity, rights over one another. Now, if you can go back to my article and copy and paste where I wrote these things, then please do so. If not, then please don’t twist my words. I understand, you got a lot against Islam because of the plenty of issues in your life but don’t twist things as you LOVE to do on your blog about Islam and then say, Islam says so and so. If you would at least pick up a tafseer about the Quran or speak to knowledgable scholars, rather than Sheikh & Mufti Google, you would have a better and clear idea of what Islam is truly about. I do hope Allah guides you to Islam, so you can put whatever knowledge you have about Islam to better use. If you are bitter about what people have done to you, blame people, rather than blaming a religion. People are responsible for their own actions and people choose to follow what they like.

  2. I read the post your writing about, and sad to say I believe it’s typical of a certain kind of muslim man. The westernized kind that wants to bend rules that don’t fit (he obviously wants to date, get to know his future wive, and have the opportunity to see if he finds her attractive) but keep the rules that suit him (have a wife who obeys him as the leader, who covers herself, cooks and so on). Typical male chauvinist. He probably thinks he’s cute too with his charming jokes.. 😦

  3. Hello mshabazz33 and welcome,

    I don’t say you demand her to cover, I say you prefer it which is what you wrote. “Would I love for her to wear the hijab? Sure, that would be great! Would I love for her to wear the niqab (Difference of opinion among schools of thought)? Sure, that would be great. Why would I be against something which Allah SWT had ordered for the women?” (You know, the quran orders women to cover their bosoms, and to wear some kind of garment suitable for being outside when they go out, that’s it! No veil is required, and absolutely not a one man tent). I don’t say you demand she treat you like a god, I write you demand she regard you as the god given leader because you are a man, which is what you wrote. “In every home that has a father and mother, regardless how many times the woman enables herself to wear the pants in the family, the man is the leader.” I don’t say you demand she can cook, I say you prefer it if she can, which is what you wrote “Does she have to cook? Sure that would be great!”

    So I haven’t been twisting your words, but as you can see – you have twisted mine. Or maybe not understood what you read.
    As it happens, I have talked to a lot of muslim scholars over the years, scholars of different schools of thought and different nationalities. I am currently working on my islamic studies thesis, and am actually quite knowledgable. Thank you for the advice.

    I will blame the religion if the religion is the basis for inequality and anti democratic values. Hitherto nobody has come here to say I have been wrong in what I state about islam, but only to say I am wrong to disapprove.

    You, like so many other muslims, talk about equity. I, being a democrat, demand equality.

    Kind regards, F

  4. If you say, you know and studied the schools of thoughts, you would know there is a difference of opinion but like I said, you enjoy twisting things about Islam and getting people, such as yourself to become an Islamophob. Hijab or niqabi, neither, either or is fine with me but again, you only like to read and understand what you would like to understand. No where did I demand her to treat me as anything. Again, you quote and then misquote at the same time and understand what you would like to understand. I also wrote, if she can cook, sure that would be great and if she does not, then that is fine, I can cook and eat myself. We can also learn to cook together. Again, you quote to only misquote. You are only reading and leaving out what you want to leave. If you understood Islam, since you don’t and you since you believe in “democracy” which supports oppression and violence more than anything.

    I do hope Allah guides you towards Islam, rather then being biased.

  5. OMG “The woman enables herself to wear the pants – the man is still the leader” Did he actually write that??? These sexist cavemen really are a disgrace to their sex. And the god they pray to ought to be ashamed of them! roflmao

  6. I am sorry but this post is incoherent and very difficult to understand which makes it difficult to answer. I dislike racism. Does that make me a racismophobe? I resent nazism. Does that make me a naziphobe? Your calling me an islamophobe is simply ludicrous.

    Are you saying you believe in equality, equal rights, equal obligations, equality before the law and society? Cause in that case, I’m afraid your text was unclear.

    How does democracy support oppression and violence? Your claim is intriguing!

  7. Exactly! I came here Fiona thinking you were a breath of fresh air, now all I see is Islam hating when to be honest you really don’t know much, symbolised with how you twisted the issue of blood being impure (for your information all blood is impure so if a man has a massive wound yes he cannot pray like that) to childbirth being looked down upon. If you knew anything about Islam you’d know the status of a mother (I don’t know if it was just ignorance on your part or Islam hating). I’m sorry your husband hurt you, but he is far from Islam, very very far.

    You say all these fancy words, equality, fairness, democracy, but really do you know what they mean? Studying medicine, I know very well the difference biologically between men and women, Let me give you an example, the enzyme which breaks down alcohol in the body is less efficient in women, FACT, hence women are advised to drink less. Equality on your terms is they should drink exactly the same, but is this justice to the female body and her health? There are many more examples Fiona, and clearly you haven’t studied anything in the scientific/biology field, cause if you had you’d know basic facts. Islam is completely in line with science, it preaches spiritual equality, equality in punishment and reward, equality before God, but it speaks of justice in rights. Just so you know, there is no specific role for a woman in Islam, she is free to do whatever she pleases, she can have a career like Khadeeja (as) the wife of the Prophet (pbuh), she can be a warrior, she can be a housewife, she can be a leader of a nation, she can be a breadwinner or not give a penny and so on. All the rules are based on this, and I can explain any rule to you.

    It makes no difference whether you accept this or not, because the reality is this view is a minority. I am from Britain, I have many non Muslims friends, the majority of people especially under 30 have Muslim friends, they are exposed to Islam on a personal basis, especially at university and whatever you say or do cannot change the reality on the ground, the religion of Islam, like the religion of Christianity, Judaism and all other religions or no religions, are part of Britain and are here to stay. People’s opinions are changing, they are less hostile, especially the youth because they see how real Muslims act and interact, how solid the families are, how women are really treated.


  8. Dear S,

    Thank you for your post. I have answered it and showed you the facts behind my statements. /F

  9. Dear S,

    I know the exact status of a mother. She is to be devoutly obedient to her husband. She is not to leave her home. She inherits half of what her brothers inherit and her husband has a right to prevent her from seeing friends or even her family if he thinks they make her rebellious, he has a right to keep her from working and earning money to give her any independence, he has a right to marry more women without asking her permission or even telling her about it, he has a right to divorce her without cause and take her children from her if she would remarry or if they are older than 9, and he has a right to beat her. That is the exact status of a mother. Oh and yeah, her children must show their mother respect while her husband does these things to her. Isn’t that great?

    Hence it is not appropriate for the people in the lower position to punish those whose position is higher. The same applies to husband and wife: the husband is in charge of his wife, and she has to obey him and not go out without his permission, otherwise the stability of the family will be destroyed. The family should have just one leader to steer its course, and that leader is the one who spends on the family and protects it. The husband is physically stronger and is more wise than the wife. We can easily understand if he disciplines his wife when she does something wrong, but we cannot imagine the wife hitting the husband if he is at fault.

    Science and statistics show that twice as many men become alcoholics. So shouldn’t they be adviced to drink only half as much as women do? All facts are open to interpretation!

    There are biological differences between coloreds and whites also. What differences in rights do you propose as a result?

    All people must have equal rights, let individual differences in interests, qualities and character decide what people achieve and choose to do with their lives. Nothing else. You state that a woman is allowed to do whatever she pleases. This is simply not true. She must be devoutly obedient to her husband. A muslim woman is not allowed to be a leader of nations according to most schools of thought. She is not allowed to be a soldier according to most schools of thought, because that would cause mixing and indecency. No, you’re simply wrong.

    I don’t care if people in the UK are jewish, christian, wiccans or muslim. They can be whatever they like. As long as they respect UK law. And as long as they adhere to the UN declaration of human rights. And as long as they admit that this truth is self evident, that all people are equal and must have equal rights.

  10. Thank you…she loves to twist things because she hates or dislike Islam and what she has been through… S…you are wasting your time with her…no point.

  11. It is sad the way you can’t take it when somebody disagrees with you and proves your arguments false. When your arguments don’t hold out or are proved wrong you don’t continue the discussion, instead you try to discredit your opponent. This is cowardly and intellectually dishonest. If a discussion based on facts instead of creed is a waste of time, then by all means waste no more. You are having problems with what you wrote being scrutinized. Then don’t write!

  12. I will continue to write, as long as you continue to misinform that people about Islam. If you are going to write about Islam, write about it without the hatred and the ill feelings because someone had decided to something to you without discussing it with you first. You speak only because of hurt and not through a clear heart. I had no issue with what you wrote but I kept an eye on what you wrote. You have disapproved nothing and only proved your hatred or dislike for Islam. Just because someone had done something to you, does not mean you go and downplay or misquote the entire religion of Islam. You take that up with the person you are involved with instead of continuing to misinform and misguide people. What you write has a lot of times, nothing to do with Islam, except your own hatred and propaganda against it. I dislike several things in my life but I don’t go and bash everyone and anyone’s God because I don’t follow their teachings. That is ignorance and you are only showing your ignorance in regards to this matter. What happened to being as an adult and moving on as an adult? Instead, you sit here everyday and only have an agenda because of your past. Now, if you would only let that go and begin to see the beauty of Islam, then maybe, your heart would be open to Islam but instead, you decide to pick, choose and understand what you only want to understand. You speak about Islam and try to teach others about Islam but you don’t agree with the Quran nor the Sunnah. Isn’t that hypocritical on your part? You disagree with something completely, you hate or dislike it but, you want to teach others about it? I call it propaganda. I have nothing against what you do or how you live but don’t spread or misinform people about Islam when in fact, it has nothing to do with Islam. I see you have a lot of followers who are basically “yes man” and only decide to agree with everything you write, as if you are a television and they constantly agree and have no mind of their own. To the Muslims reading this, stop getting your knowledge about polygamy whose only agenda is to misinform you based off her past and she still currently lives in it, which is why she writes about Islam in a ill manner. If you decide to delete this or not post this, I will post this exact same message on my blog with your blog address and let others know what your agenda is and how you are not a Muslim but a person who lives in her past.

  13. Please do post the same text wherever you like! Or did you mean it as a threat? I am for freedom of speech and for freedom of expression. 🙂 If you post it you will attract traffic to my blog, so by all means post it!

    I have disapproved of quite a lot of things. I believe you meant to write something else, but your English isn’t good enough.

    It’s quite worrying that you despise democracy and consider it a rule of oppression and violence whilst residing in Canada. So you believe you are living in a nation where the rule is based on violence and oppression? Isn’t that hypocrisy?

    So: What have I written that is false? Please tell me!
    Is it a lie that in islam a wife is required to be devoutly obedient to her husband?
    Is it a lie that in islam a man has a right to beat his wife?
    Is it a lie that in islam a woman can not leave her house, work or have guests without her husband’s permission?
    Is it a lie that in islam women inherit half of what men do?
    Is it a lie that in islam a testimony from a man can be worth twice the testimony of a woman?
    Is it a lie that in islam a man can divorce whenever he likes without cause while a woman has no right to divorce but must have a sharia court release her?
    Is it a lie that in islam a man can marry up to four wives without asking his first wife’s permission and without even telling her first?
    Is it a lie that in islam a woman has no equal right to polygamy?

    Please tell me if any of this is a lie. And please tell me if these are things a muslim can hold to be untrue or unjust. Do you believe it is unjust that a man is allowed to beat his wife? Do you believe it is unjust that divorce is in the hands of the man? Do you believe it is unjust that a man is not required to tell his wife that he intends on marrying a second? Because If you don’t, it is further proof that what I am saying is true.

    You are right, I have been badly hurt. I am not writing out of hate, you are wrong there. But I am writing out of sadness, and frustration with an ideology that propagates inequality and abuse, while trying to disguise it as “equity” and “justice”.

  14. A wife is to be obedient to her husband but again, we follow the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace & Blessings Be Upon Him). Now, before you I even begin to explain everything, you will, like you always seem to do, misquote and only understand what you want to understand and you’ll only agree based on what you think, not what has been by the majority consensus in Islam.

    First question, yes, Islam does say a woman has to be obedient towards his husband but Allah SWT states in the Quran, in Surah Nur “Deal with them in kindness.” The Prophet Muhammad (Peace & Blessings Be Upon Him) said: “The best of you are the best to his wives and I am the best his wives (family).” Now if we take a look at Islam and the biography of The Messenger Of Allah, you will read how he dealt with his wives justly and he also never hit them and advised against it.

    Second question. Islam does not say to beat their wives. You will get the word beat from those who have translated the Quran. If you read the Quran in it’s original Arabic form, the word hit is not used but rather it is tap, tap gently, hit gently. People who have a propaganda against islam, such as yourself and many others do not investigate into this matter nor do they talk to those who are knowledge. Again, the Prophet never hit ANY of his wives and again, we follow his teachings along with the Quran.

    Third question. Yes, a woman does need the permission of her husband to leave the home and have guest over and again, this has to do deal with equity, rights over another but since you live in believe in this so called democratic society, you will obviously be baffled by what Islam teaches, instead of understanding the purpose of it. The woman has rights to the money, being in charge of the home and other things, while the husband HAS to take care of her. Whatever money is hers, is hers, the husband cannot use without her permission. So you see how Allah has given rights over one another and also, given the rights to each other but I’m sure, you’ll only understand what you want to understand.

    Fourth question. The women do inherit less than the men do and again it goes back to the rights over one another. Who is in position and who will be in position to what has been established in Islam. If you think about it, your father, your grandfather, great grand father was the male in charge of the home, correct? Head of the household. The person being the head of the household would need more money in order to take care of the family. Again, it goes back to rights over another.

    Fifth question, I do not know.

    Sixth question, no a man cannot divorce his wife whenever he likes but again, Im sure you’ve asked mufti or sheikh google and whatever they said, which agreed with what you’ve had in mind, you’ve agreed. There has to be a reason, a cause why the divorce is being issued. If you take that up with the scholars of Islam, which I’m sure you’ll say “I’ve discussed with them already and they said this.” I am suuuuure they did. The wife can issue the divorce and the husband can issue the divorce both are able to.

    Seventh question. No, it is not a lie but again, if you go into depth into this issue, it is not as black and white as it seems but again, you will only read until you are satisfied and disagree with everything I’ve already listed again. The general consensus amongst the Scholars is that, one wife is enough and good enough but if the man wants to marry up to 4 wives, he can BUT he has to be just to all of them, which is highly unlikely these days. If he cannot be just to all four of them, then he cannot marry them. The scholars have said he needs to be judicious in taking this decision and to weigh it carefully with respect to benefits and drawbacks and to look with the eye of wisdom at all of the considerations pertaining to the matter, and he should strive all he can to conciliate, reassure, and satisfy his first wife, in order to ease and mitigate the effect of the matter upon her. Again, if you had done your research in regards to this matter, you would have known what was said and how it is done but you did not.

    A woman does not have no equal right to polygamy and this is what Allah has established in the religion of Al-Islam. You want your answer to that question, you should read this but Im sure you won’t and Im sure, what I wrote here was a waste of time because again, you’ll only agree to what you want to and say, you haven’t proved anything and I am right. Which you’ve done several times to others. http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/21459?ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=10009&dgn=3&

    The second part of your reply, I’ve already answered up there. Whether you agree with it or don’t that is up to you, which I’m sure, you’ve already made up your mind and disagreed with everything.

    If you are writing out of sadness, do not misguide people away from the true meaning of Islam, which you, yourself have not understood and properly looked into because of what has happened between you and your husband and his decisions without looking what will benefit and affect your relationship with him, which it has. If your husband had discussed the matters with you, which the scholars say to do so, i believe you wouldn’t be hurt and Im sorry, your husband did discuss these things with you. But I ask you, if you are going to write about Islam, write it with a clear hurt. Not out of frustration. One man’s mistake is not mistake of billions around the world or even millions who practice the religion the way it is to be practiced. You did say, your husband does not practice and this is why, he had chose to do as he pleases, instead of considering how you would feel when he did take on his second wife. Whether you had discussed this with him or not, you still hold on it and it hurts you deeply and its not fair to you and it is not fair to those who look into Islam with a positive light and you scrutinize it because of your hurt. Its called being biased. I do hope whatever pain you are going through gets resolved and you do overcome it. No point in being bitter, when you can live a happy life without all this. Im sure you are a better human being than this and you’ve been raised better and you are also intellectual enough to see these things as well. I do hope you are guided to Islam and you see it for what it is and what is being practiced around the world and to those who are converting by the thousands around the world everyday because they’ve embraced the true meaning of Islam.

  15. I do understand that you have a good intent. Please don’t doubt that. But could you please try to read this reply without bias, and maybe try to understand what it is I am trying to say?

    First of all, a man is told to be kind to his wife. Yes. But that does not give her status as a person, equal as an individual. Kindness is with limits, since we are humans, but obedience is limitless when under force. So the one does not equal the other. My dog must obey me. I must be kind to my dog.
    As for Muhammad, he did strike his wife, at least once. “He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O ‘A’isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? ” How many times do you think he might have struck them but it has not been reported??

    Secondly: It is incomprehensible how so many translators have translated the word “wadhribuhunna” in the verse as “beat them” or, even more laughable: “beat them [lightly]“. This is wrong, wrong, wrong. It is an abomination which has caused much misunderstanding and opened the door to the enemies of true faith.The word in Arabic means to “strike” or “hit”. It includes everything from a tap with a tooth-stick to what in English we call beating. If it is stated that so-and-so “hit” so-and-so without further description, it would be assumed to be a single blow and it could be of any magnitude. So it could mean a single blow of extreme magnitude that might kill a woman.

    Thirdly: A woman has no money if her husband doesn’t allow her to work. So she has no right to get the money she has a right to keep… So allah has given her no rights at all except for those given her by her husband. This makes her a slave.:( It is laughable. And saying that one person has a right to keep the other one prisoner in the home is disgusting and contradictory to the UN Bill of Rights (and against Canadian law, I hope you are aware of that!) The things you state here are exactly the arguments whites in the south used to keep slaves. “It’s about eqity”. You are a racist, a gender racist. That a grown person should have to ask another person’s permission to go to a friend is disgusting. One person can only have a right over another, if the other person has the same right. Otherwise, we would still have slavery. Oh, sorry, I forgot islam favours slavery as well.

    My mother had a lot more money than my father. I am a lot richer than my husbands. But islam doesn’t care. I am still to obey, and they are still to lead the household. In the west almost no family can live on one income. Women work just as much as men. But that doesn’t give them any more rights according to islam.

    As for divorce, of course both the husband and the wife can get a LEGAL divorce. But a man can have a divorce according to sharia by just saying I divorce you. That’s all it takes! If you have proof of anything else, I’d like to see it. If a woman wants a divorce, she must get a sharia court to order her husband to divorce her.

    As for the seventh question, I must tell you, I have spent many years now researching it. You have not. Yes, a man is supposed to make polygamy as easy as possible for his wife. But you see, the pain, the hurt, the suffering is beyond anything you can imagine. It’s like saying that yes, torture is allowed but we are supposed to ease and mitigate the effects of torture on our victims.
    I am all for consensual polygamy. But islam says you don’t need your first wife’s permission. This is what is disgusting, misogynist and vile. You don’t even need to tell her. Where is the ethics in that? As for islamqa, I have already read that naturally. And you can read about their lies and falsifications here: https://polygamy911.wordpress.com/?s=Lies+about+polygamy

    So you see, the problem is not what my husband did. The problem is what his religion allowed him to do. What islam allows men to do.

    And as you yourself say, I have not told a single lie about islam. You just don’t like that I resent the misogyny and gender racism of islam, instead of finding it just and fair.

    There is no way a society that grants one group of people rights over an other group of people can be anything but hell on earth.

    You still haven’t been able to say what faults you find with democracy.

  16. Like I said, you have already made up your mind no matter what I have written. In end it didn’t matter what I wrote because again you wrote, “nothing I’ve wrote /said was a lie “…you do what you like. If it makes you sleep at night better talking about islam in a negative light sure. But there thousands upon thousands converting everyday because they look at islam with a clear heart and not with a clouded mind full of hurt and cause of the past.

    I’ve never come across that hadith, nor have I read it any where. So whether that hadith is authentic or not, is very unlikely.

    No matter what a person writes about Islam, debates you with whatever type of knowledge they have, you’ll want to be right.

    A woman is allowed to work and a her husband is to give her allowance and take care of her. Which is her right over him and it his duty as her husband. Now you’ll say I’ve researched That too and you wrong.

    If the husband is not fulfilling the wife rights she is allowed to divorce him but again you’ll say, you are wrong and I am right. Everything I’ve told you about Islam and learned is true and it’s bad…

    May Allah guide you to Islam and open your heart towards it and softens it. Peace

  17. It is not worth trying Fiona. I know such men. They will never understand how much hurt their just and fair is causing women. They only want to be men and be served and obeyed by women. They will interpret everything to their advantege. You see this man is lying about divorce, may Allah swt forgive him, and is pretending that women’s servitude and plight is good and just. Allah will make him pay. And he pretend he wants woman who is intellegent and confident. But she must ask his permission to go out for a walk but he can take many wives without ask her. And he will say it is just. Bismillah, this is why woman in many countries is worst off than an animal.

  18. But my dear,

    It was you yourself who admitted that nothing I have claimed was a lie! You said it over and over again. So what is your complaint? I have only told the truth. You said it yourself. So what is the problem?

    The hadith is Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 2127. It is classified as sahih. It looks like you are the one who needs to do some studying on islam!

    A woman is not allowed to work if her husband forbids it. She can’t even leave the house remember? You said so yourself!

    Please don’t come here and just say “You are wrong” Say WHAT is wrong, and give proof to the opposite if you can.

    When answering an argument, you use a counterargument, based on facts. Not a whining “you shouldn’t speak badly of this….”. Not if you want respect.

    You should be careful also of making your own interpretations. You are dangerously close to becoming an innovator in many of your statements. Don’t you heed the scholars?

  19. So, what you are looking for mshabazz33, is a woman who never even goes out for a walk without your permission, who understands it as beneficiary when you correct her with a blow, and who will accept it as a kindness when you marry another woman behind her back? Why didn’t you just say so in the first place! 🙂

  20. Salaams

    I think you misunderstand this brother. He is not a wife beating man who wishes to rule over his wife like a dog. And he didn’t say so. He is saying that he as husband has rights over his wife. She must obey and serve him in everything and give him intercourse whenever during night or day he should command it. And she has rights over him, he must feed and clothe her. If you find this unjust your grudge is with Allah swt not with this brother.

  21. @mshabazz33 Let me ask you: How would you feel about having to ask your mothers permission every time you want to leave your home for the rest of your life? Having to ask her permission every time you want to have a friend over and every time you want to fast? She loves you doesn’t she? She’s looking out for your best interests? So how how would you feel if, for the rest of your life you can only do those things with her permission? Wouldn’t you feel like you were denied adulthood, berieved of your majority, your status as a grown up human being? I think you would. But you have no problems putting this bondage on grown up women. Aren’t you ashamed of yourself?

  22. If I was writing this reply for Fiona to change then I would be wasting my time, but I’m not, she is open to debate which is good and also I think it is important to show the other side of the argument for people who may be reading this.

    Anyway to answer your points: Fiona Islam is not about rights, there is an essence and then there is the form, there are basic Islamic principles which every single form/rule/right must adhere to. Saying all these rights which are debatable (you are using Sunni/Salafi laws, I am Shia and although I regard myself as Muslim only and am against sectarianism, we do not believe those hadiths are sahih) means nothing unless you apply basic Islamic principles such as honestly, treating women with kindness, the example of the Prophet (pbuh). I agree that Islamic theology has been dominated by males for many years and it has led to certain interpretations of Islam which has led to the oppression of women, and I believe there should be more female top scholars, and the scholar I follow was paving the way for women to become ayatollahs, the highest position of a scholar in Shia Islam, but unfortunately he died a few years ago but the scholar who has taken over is even more open on women issues (he says you need the first wife’s permission either on mutaa-temporary marriage- or polygamy, not quite sure since I read it a while ago). I do not like polygamy Fiona, I would not accept it for myself or for anyone I love. I think it could have been applicable to a certain time and a certain place and a certain circumstance and it may be applicable in some remote place today but not for me, and Islam gives me the freedom to think that.

    “So shouldn’t they be adviced to drink only half as much as women do?”- how is being alcoholic linked to how much is ‘healthy’ (I put it in inverted commas cause none is healthy and please don’t quote me about how it calms you, I have studied it in detail, if you want me to go into it I will) for a woman? If a woman drank as much as a man is recommended (as a maximum) to drink she would probably suffer from liver failure and possibly die. Another fact, that same enzyme is less efficient in east Asians, they are also recommended to drink less, am I racist now?

    If everyone was biologically, psychologically and physically the same then there would be no need for males and females. I don’t go after the rights of men and want exactly like men, men are not my bench mark, they are not better than us. We are equal before God, I want to be the best woman I can be and reach my full potential, not be the best man. We are supposed to work together not compete. For example I would not never advocate men get as much paternity leave as a woman can get because biologically then cannot breast feed and a child needs breast milk in the early months, yes a man can feed it with a bottle, but scientifically both for the bonding and nutritious value breast feeding directly is much better.

    No she does not have to be devoutly obedient, their is a principle of mutual consultation and discussion in Islam. The Prophet (saw) says “women are the twin halves of men”. The general consensus, due to the man being given financial responsibility of the family, is he has the final say but he and his wife must discuss together and try and reach decisions together. However there is also logic, Allah swt has blessed us with a brain, if a woman is better at a certain thing she should do it. Also a woman cannot obey her husband over God’s law, and your husband and every single husband must obey his mother over everyone, she has the most rights over him. Yes a woman is allowed to lead nations, as Bilqis did in the Qur’an. The hadith saying cursed is the nation which is ruled by a woman is fabricated, I have researched it in depth, there is also a lecture on it that I listened to explaining why it is fabricated. Yes she can be a soldier, Nusaybah was a soldier who defended the Prophet (saw) in the wars and he praised her and the Imams from his family praised her as one of the great women that all women should aspire to be, Jihad though is not obligatory on the woman. So no, you are simply wrong.

  23. “You still haven’t been able to say what faults you find with democracy.”- Sorry I know this wasn’t addressed to me but as someone also living in the UK, are you actually being serious? Do you know what democracy means? It means the people’s will. We voted for liberal democrats to reduce student fees, they come in and guess what happens it goes up and we have to pay £9000 a year. We voted for them to preserve the NHS, but let me tell you something NHS dentistry is likely to go extinct in 2 years. There was the largest protest in the history of Britain against the Iraq war but who listened? This is democracy? Yeah they get in by democratic means but then do whatever they please.

    I can go on and on about the hypocrisy, especially in foreign policy but it is likely to go in on ear and out the other, but I am shocked that an intelligent woman like yourself is actually thinking we are living in a free, equal and democratic nation. Yeah it’s better than the Middle East, the same place you know Britian and France colonised and split up, but you paint it like a beautiful garden where everything is perfect.

    The eye of hate sees everything with hate and you hate Islam due to one man who knows nothing about Islam, it is simple, and it is very sad. I hope God guides you to contentment in yourself.

  24. “It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.” 🙂 I know a lot of things about politics in the UK I dislike – the way they can’t seem to do anything about London traffic is appalling…

    But the guy wasn’t talking about lousy education policies or the break down of NHS – he wrote “democracy” which supports oppression and violence more than anything”. If you want to claim that democracy supports oppression you must back that up. He didn’t write “some politicians” or something like it, he wrote that the democratic system (not misuse of it!) is a worse oppressor than e.g. military dictatorships. Huh? That sure is a claim that needs clarification. If you are dissatisfied with NHS or student fees – how do you think people in Egypt feel about their government, or people in Syria or Afghanistan??? Democracy supports violence and oppression more than anything – excuse me but that is such BS!!

    (If you look at e.g. healthcare and obgyn for women, if you look at the right to due process, if you look at war, the worst countries in the world are all muslim nations. How do you explain that? Show me where people flee democracy to seek shelter in Somalia, Sudan, Iran and Afghanistan!)

    I do not hate islam. And if I did it would not be due to my husband. I think there are beautiful things in islam. But this blog is not about islam. It’s about islamic polygyny. And I do hate that. I hate the rights islam gives to men, and men only. Not the right to polygyny, I can respect that. But the right to enter polygyny without the consent of the prior wives. The right to polygyny while denying the right to polyandry. The right to enter polygyny and deny your wife divorce even if the suffering kills her. The right to marry and fuck three more women while denying your wife to even leave the house for a walk, or having a job. The right to fuck three other women while forcing your wife to wear a one man tent every time you allow her out of the house so that no man should ever be allowed to see her, know what she looks like. The right to tell your wife and children that if they are hurt by your fucking other women, teenagers or maybe a nine year old, if you are hurt by being alone when the children are sick or by being alone when you give birth because your husband is off fucking a new wife, than you are week in religion and selfish. Yep, hate that.

    I am content in myself now. I am happier than ever. But islamic views on women are still killing women. Women are made to live Hell on earth all over the world due to their islamic “rights”. That is very sad indeed! And I will keep talking about it.

  25. Separation of power. It is the only thing that can prevent corruption. Separation of power. And this is where islam fails. Islam gives power to men, and women have to pay the price. Muslims keep saying that husbands have rights over wives and wives have rights over husbands. But not the same rights. And the huge difference is that while the husbands rights give them complete power over their wives, the wives rights give them no power at all over the husbands. Or over themselves for that matter.

    There’s the rub.

    All people are selfish, have weaknesses and faults. But when there is separation of power these faults and deficiencies can be balanced out. But not in islam. Because all power is in the hand of men. So their faults and deficiencies can not be curbed. Islamic rules, giving men power over women, only work if all men were perfect. And they are not. Not a single one is.

    If you happen to get a husband who is an intelligent, kind and decent man, you can have a relatively good life, although powerless. But all men with natural weaknesses will have them enhanced by the inherent corruption in wielding power, power without balance. Power corrupts. And bad men will become monsters.

    They should be kind to their wives you say. Yes. I know it says so. And Stalin should have been kind to his people, so should Pol Pot. But they weren’t. And do you know why? Because they had the power, and nobody else had power to restrict them. This is the same kind of power islam grants men over women. That they really should be kind doesn’t help. It is laughable and based on no understanding of human nature.

    You write: “The general consensus, due to the man being given financial responsibility of the family, is he has the final say”. This is not what my studies show. This would mean that if the woman becomes the breadwinner, she would then also be the head of the family. But that’s not so, is it? NO! Because power is given to men, not to women. His being her head is not tied to his being the bread winner, that is just a rationalization. I know also of historical women warriors, Aisha not the least. But that has nothing to do with islam today. Show me the women in the Iranian army, or the Saudi army.

    You could also take a look at these:

    Being an alcoholic makes it far more likely to die from alcohol related problems. So yes, alcoholism is dangerous to your health. I am surprised you didn’t know that being in the medical profession. Science also proves that more men than women die having drunk the exact same amount of alcohol. Women’s livers give up earlier, but mens’ brains do too. They act more dangerously when they have been drinking, drive, go swimming et.c. – and they die.

    I would not say that you are racist if you recommend Asian people to drink less alcohol. I would call you racist if you banned Asians from all pubs and restaurants serving alcohol and made it illegal to sell alcohol to Asians, claiming you want to protect them. If you want to talk about biological differences between men and women, whites and blacks, Europeans and Asians – fine. Science shows there are differences, we can debate what differences and what degree of differences. But you can not have laws that give different rights to people based on your interpretations of these differences. Then yes – you would be a racist!

  26. It’s interesting how quickly this guy put his tail between his legs and ran for hiding when his ranting was met by facts and logic reasoning. This is typical of muslim men. They learn a couple of verses of the quran by heart, preferably the ones about male superiority, and that’s it. If anybody challenges their ideas they simply aren’t capable of debate. Since you, and other commentators who have asked questions, are women it’s probably beneath him to answer. especially since he isn’t up to it. He obviously doesn’t know the hadiths as well as you do. He obviously doesn’t know what the scholars say as well as you do. He obviously can’t reason the way you do. So he just doesn’t answer. 🙂 Or will we get word on his opinion on the fact that Muhammad DID strike his wife? Or the fact that he admitted you didn’t tell a single lie about islam? Or exactly how democracy is the worst kind of oppression. Wouldn’t think so. The only way this guy can pretend to be superior is by shutting the f**k up. 🙂

  27. i have a question olivia, are you a muslim guy? if so how do you know the way muslim men think. or are you that man who fiona is bashing against ? is their a difference between the way a muslim man thinks or a non-muslim man thinks? or are you just putting your two sense into something you just clearly assume from the basis of judging a person by the rest of the people in his religion. this goes to show how racist and stereotypical people can be.

    “Typical muslim men?” seriously. i’d like to know what’s your idea of a “typical non-muslim man” .

    also fiona, i tried to read what you said without a judgemental viewpoint whatsoever. but i really do think you misunderstood malik. anyways i do like reading your posts because they are very interesting, but you should try not to keep bashing other people.

  28. Hello LOL and welcome. I will try not to bash other people. I will however bash other people’s views, if they are e.g. racist or misogynist. I don’t attack people (look above, he attacks me personally over and over while I attack his views and statements!). It doesn’t seem I misunderstood him. He has affirmed every misogynist view I accused him of. He has also refused to answer, he simply can’t stand it when I prove him wrong. I agree about the “typical muslim man” comment although I believe I understand what Olivia means.

  29. LoL,
    My father is a muslim, from Turkey. My mother is from Germany. She is a catholic. My childhood was agony with constant oppression from my father. He was afraid we would be “Westernized” and did everything he could to make prisoners out of my sisters and me, and our mother. He always had a saying from the quran that told us he had the right to do what he did. We must stay in the home. We must obey and be patient. We must never be seen and our voices are awrah. Women cause fitnah to men. No greater plague was ever sent on men than woman. When my mother tried to protect us he would hit her. My uncles all said he must make sure not to let us go to Shaytan. He had imams come and tell us that we must obey. Women in the west who wanted to fave friends, go to mixed schools and work instead of staying at home were opressed and destroyed. They quoted quran and hadiths to us. Some of them tried to be nice and friendly and say we must understand that our father loves us and knows best and thats why we must obey. If we wanted anything it was Shaytan talking if my father wanted something it was Allah talking. I never met a muslim man who said You have the same rights as a man Olivia. Go and look for you own happiness, integrity and value! It never happened! Maybe I am unjust, but I never met a muslim man who could say that, or explain why he saw me as someone who must obey, cover and submit to a man without quoting hadiths and verses from the quran. 😦

  30. thats kinda crap, seriously. i never have experienced things like that as i am raised in a muslim family myself, but that just really sucks. i guess i understand why you hate muslims through your own personal experience. i didn’t mean to hurt you though, i just find it mean when people are stereotypical against people in a religion based on a few other people in that religion. my younger brothers, my dad, my uncles, cousins, my husband all are nice people and they only want the best for me. well anyways i hope you don’t actually hate on every single muslim out there just based on what you experienced youself. and to the thing where women can’t go outside, your dad is totally wrong there. the prophets wife used to work she was a buisness women and aisha used to go out with the prophet to watch dancers etc. there are alot of nice muslim women out there though who aren’t treated as you have been, a few of my favourites are amenakin and nye armstrong on youtube.

    anyways wish you the best with your life. take care. x

  31. Ok I’m going to start with the alcohol analogy since you really missed the point. Fiona alcoholism is when people drink UNHEALTHY amounts, go over the recommended limits, I am talking about what is HEALTHY and what is recommended. When people go over the recommended amounts of course they will suffer hence the recommendation in the first place, whether man or woman, and it makes no difference if more men become alcoholics, woman still should drink less otherwise the consequences are more for them because their body cannot take as much alcohol. Another example, in Wimbledon the men play to 5 sets, the women to 3, is that fair? It is recognising the limitation of woman and not giving them the right to play as much as men. Another example unrelated to women, gays are not allowed to give blood, they have taken their right away to give blood, why? Cause they are more likely to pass on infectious diseases. These rules aren’t in Saudi or Iran, they’re in the UK. Even a secular government which goes on about equality completely oblivious to what it actually means accepts the limitations of people. This does not make one person more important, or better, it’s just life.

    Men have all the power? Really? Have you ever met an Iranian couple, or how about a Pakistani mother, I really doubt the men around them would agree with you. Women in Islam have full power to their own money (you’ll say well they can’t work if their husband forbids them from leaving the home, well our example is the Prophet pbuh and he never forbade anyone so that just isn’t true) whereas men have no power on theirs. They must spend it on their wife, children and family they have no choice in the matter, where as it is the complete opposite for a woman. Hence returning to my point on financial responsibility, where did I say breadwinner? Breadwinner makes no difference, the woman could be earning millions and the husband barely anything, the husband still has financial responsibility and hence the rule is he has final say, however the reality is women make almost every decision when it comes to the home and family and that is also the reality of life. Men should not make decisions of their own, especially if it would effect the wife, without consulting her and discussing with her. Like I said Islam is not just a list of rules you found off Islam q&a (I completely reject that website hence I am not going to answer what they said, I have told you before they are extreme), there is the Qur’an, its principles and the example of the Prophet (pbuh).

    Whether Saudi or Iran have women in their army is besides the point, you are saying Islam says this, not Muslims do this, and I don’t regard Saudi as Islamic. Stick to one line, either Islam or Muslims, they are not the same, just like most religions.

    Equal rights…what does that mean? If I told a monkey and a fish to climb a tree that’s equal but its not fair. If i told them to swim it also wouldn’t be fair. You are saying put different people in the same task and just hope they figure out a way to reach their potential even if they are not designed to be the best at it, I am saying in areas where they are equally good then I agree, however in areas where one is better, whether it be women, men, old, young etc. then put them in areas they are best suited, and God is wiser than you or me.

    Just as a side note, the hadith about the Prophet pbuh hitting Aisha is invalid, I have researched that too. Please research before quoting, if you want your points to be taken seriously (don’t tell me bukhari, muslim etc, they are all fallible, every hadith is taken individually, there is a science to it)

  32. London traffic is the least of my worries, the slow but clear decline of the welfare state and the corruption of the banks and those at the top is what worries me. Anyway we could be here all day talking about The Conservatives and David Cameron and maybe that is something we’d agree on lol.

    Democracy in theory supporting oppression of the reality of democratic nations? Islam supports democracy, the Prophet pbuh left his hometown of Mecca because the people didn’t want him and went to Medina where the people wanted him, he went with the people’s will, including the Jews and Christians. But democracy now is supporting oppression, look at Bahrain, America and its allies said and did absolutely nothing when Saudi went in and crushed their revolution for democracy, killing many. They prevented it being covered on the news. They supported Mubarak to the last day, and now even supported the military coup against the democratically elected leader (I don’t particularly like him but he was elected), they have sent billions of dollars to Israel despite their oppression of the Palestinians, they sent money and weapons to the Syrian rebels even though they come from the same school of thought as the extremists. All these countries have oil, however other countries like Zimbabwe etc. also have a dictator but no one really cares. It is hypocrisy at its finest, and this is the reality of so called democratic countries, and yeah dictatorships are also bad. But let’s not turn a blind eye to the so called democracy being forced down our throats.

    “But the right to enter polygyny without the consent of the prior wives.”- some scholars disagree, as I have said, it is an ongoing debate. You need to realise back in the Prophets pbuh time polygamy was so normal you didn’t need any consent, it was expected, but times are different now and so Islamic thought is trying to understand this clash of culture and cater for it.

    “The right to enter polygyny and deny your wife divorce even if the suffering kills her.”- This is not true, a woman can divorce, Islamically for any reason, and even those who are extreme and say she needs a reason accept polygamy as a reason.

    “The right to marry and fuck three more women while denying your wife to even leave the house for a walk, or having a job.”- I really don’t know why you swear but anyway, I answered this if the Prophet pbuh did not do this then no man has the right too, and he didn’t, so this isn’t true.

    “The right to fuck three other women while forcing your wife to wear a one man tent every time you allow her out of the house so that no man should ever be allowed to see her, know what she looks like.”- There is no compulsion in religion, you cannot force your wife to cover in Islam.

    “The right to tell your wife and children…than you are week in religion and selfish.”- If a man abandons his wife in her time of need, affects her faith due to his actions, does not look after his children properly he has sinned and will be held accountable on the day of Judgement. If a woman has a husband like this, then she really needs to seek divorce, cause it doesn’t matter what he calls himself, he isn’t a believer and he is the selfish one.

    If you are talking about what Muslims do, then that is another issue, but you said Islam.

  33. 🙂 First of all – I know that men’s livers tolerate alcohol slightly better than women’s. I don’t argue that. But the outcome from men’s consuming of alcohol is much worse then women’s. Men commit more crimes UTI, end up dead due to violence or DUI or accidents UTI, and become alcoholics to a much larger extent. So if women should be recommended to drink less alcohol, men should be recommended do drink none at all. This is exactly what I mean. That there is always more then one factor to consider. You cannot base a recommendation on the effect of alcohol on the liver alone!

    Equal rights…what does that mean? If I told a monkey and a fish to climb a tree that’s equal but its not fair. If i told them to swim it also wouldn’t be fair. You are saying put different people in the same task and just hope they figure out a way to reach their potential even if they are not designed to be the best at it, I am saying in areas where they are equally good then I agree, however in areas where one is better, whether it be women, men, old, young etc. then put them in areas they are best suited, and God is wiser than you or me.

    If we should look at genetical or biological differences, women now have a higher general IQ than men, and women globally achieve much higher grades and more academic degrees than men. Men have more muscle. Shouldn’t we then ban men from academic education and academic careers and only allowed them to do menial body work, for which they are clearly more suited biologically? If menses is enough to ban women from prayer? Why should menses and childbirth be the only factors considered?? Because men have made the rules!! Black people also have a lower IQ than white people. So do you mean that biology must rule over what they are allowed to do too? Or will you only accept reproductive biology to matter??? What about barren women? Why aren’t they allowed to be imams and prophets?? No, these rules are only misogynist, nothing else, and the logics you are using is the logic that once defended slavery and the holocaust. The only solution is to give all people equal opportunities, and let individual abilities and achievements decide. Everything else is the basis for discrimination, oppression and racism.

    And if islam really wanted to honour women, the rule would be that men would have to celebrate menses and give huge fiests to celebrate their women’s post partum bleedings. But that is not the case is it?? NO! Menses is considered an unclean curse!! So don’t come to say that it is to honour women they are banned from prayer during menses. The hadiths clearly tell us that women are weak in reason and religion, partly because they can’t pray during menses. So it is not a privilege, it is a curse.

    Before I answer your question about power I must ask for some clarifications: Do you mean to say that islam allows a woman to work and leave her home whenever she wants – even when it is against the express command of her husband that she is not allowed to work and he has forbidden her to leave the home? An can you show me a single hadith or sura saying the husband must obey his wife IN ANYTHING? He must obey god yes, but his wife? EVER? Give me a single sharia ruling where it says a husband must obey his wife – in anything.

    Please, also say which islamic nation has fighting women soldiers in their army? Not muslims, but an islamic nation that allows female fighting soldiers, based on islam and sharia?

    And Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 2127 has been classified as sahih. Some have debated the translation, should it be hit or push, some apologetics have tried to leave the “and it cause me pain” part out, but I find no acclaimed source which does not classify the hadith as sahih.

  34. I’ve been a tory all my life. I am basically a libertarian with some neo conservative values. But we might be able to agree on some opinions on David Cameron.. 🙂

    First of all, thank you very much for writing, and for debating in an upright and factual manner. I am very grateful that you come here and talk about these issues showing respect for others’ opinions. Kudos.

    Questions: A wife must obey her husband in everything that is not against religion and god’s will. Can you show me any islamic text or ruling that denies this? Any ruling, fatwa or islamic scholar who says that if a husband commands his wife to wear hijab she has a right to refuse?

    Can you show me any ruling, fatwa or text by an islamic scholar saying that a man who becomes polygynous abandons his wife and her needs? Because of course he does. He will be gone half the time, at least. But show me an islamic scholar or a fatwa that says that polygyny as a principle means denying a wife her needs? If your children have a colic, can a wife deny her husband to go to his other wives to spend the nights because she can’t handle five nights in a row without sleep, every five nights, year after year? Or if your child has an illness and will need supervision around the clock year after year, can a wife forbid her husband a second wife? or a third and a fourth?Show me where it says that the needs of a wife and the children mean that a man must obey his wife if she says he can not take another wife! Show me a fatwa!

    I am not swearing. I am just not using euphemisms. But please, show me a fatwa or any text from an islamic scholar saying that a wife has a right to go out and do anything she wants that isn’t against the law, even if her husband expressly forbids it. Ask a muslim scholar if a husband has a right to forbid his wife from leaving the house for anything but bare necessity, even if he is gone a lot of time because he has three other wives. And then show me the answer you get. They will say that he ought to be kind and he ought to consider her feelings, but if the husband forbids her, she must obey.

    As for divorce: If a man is able to marry a second wife, physically and financially, and he can treat both wives in a just manner, and he wants to take a second wife, then he is allowed to do so according to Islam. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “… then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four…” [al-Nisaa’ 4:3]

    And this was the practice of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and of his Companions (may Allaah be pleased with them), but apart from the Prophet, no one is permitted to have more than four wives.

    It is well known that women are by nature jealous and reluctant to share their husband with other women. Women are not to be condemned for this jealousy, for it existed in the best of righteous women, the Sahaabiyyaat, and even in the Mothers of the Believers [the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)]. But women should not let jealousy make them object to that which Allaah has prescribed, and they should not try to prevent it; a wife should allow her husband to marry another woman for this is a kind of cooperating in righteousness and piety. According to a hadeeth whose authenticity is agreed upon, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever pays attention to his brother’s needs, Allaah will pay attention to his needs.”

    The first wife’s consent is not a prerequisite for a man to take another wife. The Standing Committee for Issuing Fatwas was asked about this and replied as follows:

    “It is not obligatory for the husband, if he wants to take a second wife, to have the consent of his first wife, but it is good manners and kindness to deal with her in such a manner that will reduce the hurt which women naturally feel in such situations. This is done by being kind to her and speaking to her in a gentle and pleasant manner, and by spending whatever money may be necessary in order to gain her acceptance of the situation.”

    Concerning her request for divorce if her husband wants to marry another wife, this is a mistake. But they should examine the situation, and if she really cannot cope with living with another wife, then she can ask him for khula’ [ a kind of divorce instigated by the wife, whereby she forgoes the mahr]. If she can cope with living with the second wife, but it hurts her to do so, then she should be patient and seek the pleasure of Allaah. Thawbaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) narrated that the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

    “No woman asks her husband for a divorce for no reason, but the fragrance of Paradise is forbidden for her.” (Narrated by Abu Dawood and others, and classed as saheeh by al-Albaani, may Allaah have mercy on him).

    If she bears it with patience, then Allaah will make it easier for her and will expand her chest (i.e., grant her peace and calm), and will compensate her with something good. The husband must also help her by treating her kindly, being patient with her for any jealousy etc. on her part, and overlooking her mistakes. And Allaah is the source of help.

    Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah al-Haydari.

    So you see, he does not need her consent, he does not need to tell her in advance, and she is not allowed to ask for a divorce simply because he becomes polygamous, only if she can not after having tried being unselfish can not cope with it will she be allowed to ask for Khul. Here in the UK however, the sharia councils will often not grant Khul without a lengthy process of “reconciliation” and mediation first. So even in the UK many women will be forced to live polygyny for years before they are granted Khula. In many other nations, islamic nations, Khula will not be granted at all if the only reason is polygyny, since polygyny is halal and hence not a VALID reason for Khula.

    Muslims often try to defend misogyny and discrimination saying that Yeah – but it was even worse 2000 years ago, or Yeah – but christians did it too 200 years ago. They use this argument of course, because there is no defense for these kinds of disgusting sexist, gender acist rules today. I don’t care about what some people might have done 2000 years ago. I care about what people do to each other today.

    About American politics, they have been in some serious jams. I don’t agree with everything they do. I do respect the Truman doctrine though. And I do respect a society where all people are equal before the law. Nothing else is worthy of any respect at all.You have no rights what so ever, if you are not prepared to grant everybody else the same rights.

    The Palestinians are in a situation they have created themselves. If they had not been racist and discriminatory in their reactions to the 1948 proposal, they would have had their own state. I can’t see that Palestinians today are any less guilty of murder and violence than Israelis.

    How are you in the UK having democracy forced down your throat? And what system of government would you want instead?

  35. Hi

    Sorry for late reply. If men drank the recommended levels they would not be alcoholics. If they aren’t going to follow one recommendation, then how is lowering it (when there is no need for the majority of men who are not alcoholic) going to stop someone who is alcoholic and is going to go against the recommendation anyway? It won’t. The recommendation is there based on biologically what a man and woman can handle, if they stay within those limits they should be fine, but a woman should always drink less. This is just one example of many, I told you about how women play less sets in Wimbledon, homosexuals cannot give blood in the UK. My point is biologically, physically and psychology men and women are different and hence there are certain laws in place which may seem to limit one, but in fact it is good for them. Another example, paternity leave for a father is much less than a mother, men don’t have breasts! There is no point in going round in circles, I think I made this point very clear, if you don’t accept it that is fine, but it is highlighting my point.

    IQ is based on upbringing, class, schools, income, friends etc. there are MANY factors not just gender, whereas in alcohol consumption is it purely based on the differences biologically. But if women are better at a certain job then yes they should have more rights in it. I’ll give you an example, a woman wants to work in a nursery perfectly fine, it will be a normal interview process. However if a man wanted to he has to go through many many checks, much more than the woman, before he is allowed the job and even then he is not allowed in certain areas with the children such as the bathroom and changing nappies etc. Where is anyone banned from anything? You can do what you like, but certain people are suited for jobs better and the opportunities are more open to those people.

    Regarding women being prophets and imams, in terms of status, perfection and knowledge women equaled them such as Fatimah (as) the Prophet’s (PBUH) daughter or Mary (as), so if the issue was they weren’t as good, that isn’t a valid point. But can I ask you, do you know what pre Islamic Arabia was like? Or maybe Jerusalem in the time of Jesus (PBUH)? They used to bury their daughters alive, you think if a woman prophet came along anyone would have believed in her? They would probably have buried her alive too. But in terms of Imams, ayatollahs etc then like I mentioned in another post, they are starting to pave the way for this because in the Prophet’s (PBUH) time women were scholars just as high as men.

    I never got around to answering about menstruation and blood being impure. I will inshallah and show you fatwas of all blood being classed as impure.

    Our example is the Prophet (PBUH), he never forbade anyone from working, so yes based on that a man cannot. This is my view, whether Islam q&a et al agrees or not is nothing to do with me. If a man is away from his wife for a certain amount of time and she asks him to come back he must obey her, this is a rule.

    There is no Islamic nation in the world at present, no nation which follows sharia completely or any nation which any legitimate scholars regards as Islamic, so whether they have soldiers or not is besides me, The Prophet (PBUH) did, that is our example.

    I don’t accept Sahih Muslim as authentic completely, ask any Shia scholar they will tell you it is not authentic 🙂

  36. “I’ve been a tory all my life…on David Cameron.. 🙂 ”

    Lol, I don’t even know who I’d vote for anymore but certainly not Conservatives. Even though we’re middle class we’ve always been Lib Dems/Labour so more centre/left wing. Obviously I believe in the NHS, although in private you can make so much more money but the value of the NHS is so much that I’d choose to work in it. I want it to stay and fluorish and I know that won’t happen under Conservatives, but we’ll see. Politics is always an interesting debate!

    “First of all, thank you very much for writing…Kudos.”

    You’re very welcome, thank you for discussing respectfully with me too. I appreciate that we can say what we like here, I commented once on polygamy 411 and was told I don’t belong there :/

    I will ask my scholar your questions, I have a view which is supported by Qur’an and hadith but you would like fatwas, I will let you know the answers. Regarding divorce though, these 4 questions were asked to Sayed Mohammed Hussein Fadhlallah, my scholar:

    1. What is the ruling for multiple marriages according to shariah, is it allowed (mubaah), or is it permissible, or obligatory or recommended. Answer: allowed

    2. Is it permissible for the wife to stipulate in the marital contract that she have power of attorney in divorcing herself from her husband? Answer: permissible

    3. If that is permissible, would it then be permissible for the wife to stipulate in the marital contract that she have power of attorney to divorce herself from her husband as soon as he marries another woman? Answer: permissible

    4. If a woman has power of attorney, is it permissible for her to divorce her husband for any reason? Answer:It is permissible under the title of power of attorney (wikalah) not ‘3ismah’ (bond of marriage).

    And Ayatollah Jawad Al-Tabrizi answers the first question: Marriage to another woman is not forbidden, but it is (marrying another woman) contrary to being kind to her.

    Just to let you know, if a man is married to a Muslim women, he requires the permission of his first wife to marry a second woman ii she is not Muslim (i.e. Christian or Jew)

    And also in an interview with Sayed Fadhallah:

    *Are you with polygamy?

    Polygamy has a dark as well as a bright side. As to the dark side, polygamy has a negative psychological effect on both the wife & children. But at the same time, polygamy helps in reducing illegal relationships to the bare minimum.

    In case of a woman’s sterility, polygamy is the resolution that man seeks to having children . At the same time, polygamy is traced in a society where the number of men exceeds the number of woman.

    In this sense, Polygamy can be a resolution to decrease the number of spinsters in such a society.

    I am not going to comment on Israel, each to their own.

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